Renovation or new build

Bald n Grumpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
A new house without losing the old one is nigh on impossible in the countryside unless you have something to trade for it. Could you get a Class Q permission on a barn you don't use and then see if you can trade that for a house of a similar size but in a more appropriate location. This has been proven in Case Law and could be an option but you would lose a barn and possibly your Permitted Development rights (although some councils do slip up).


A new build would be better at meeting EPC figures and giving you the layout you want reather than trying to work with what you have but you would need to go through the whole planning process. There are ways to get a much larger house if you play your cards right and secure all the Permitted Development extensions on the existing house then you could use that as an arguement to get more in the new build - done that several times.
Sorry to be thick but what's a class Q
 
Sorry to be thick but what's a class Q
Class Q is a Permitted Development right that allows agricultural buildings to be converted to houses without full planning permission. You still need to seek Prior Approval from the council but they have very limited grounds to refuse on and if you can tick all the boxes then you will get a new dwelling in a location that would normally be resisted. It is then commonplace to apply for full planning for futher changes to the design or to completely demolish it and start again; the Class Q is used as a fallback position and worst comes to the worst you have a barn conversion!

EDIT: Class Q is only available in England - National Parks are also excluded.
 

devonbeef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon UK
Not had any yet and there were definitely problems before. The house is warm and that is the whole house not just the living room and kitchen. The house has been in the family for decades and it was never warm before, or at best went cold as soon as the fire went out.
The stud and insulation was all on the inside of the wall so made the room smaller but not enough to notice. It does mean re-plastering of course so not a simple task if you are living in there while the work is done. I was lived in a static caravan for a couple of years during the work.
Thank you for that ,sounds like worth the effort in the long run.I know the feeling ,about not letting the fire s going out, the heat just disappears in a instant here, even with double glazing and a foot of insulation in the roof.
 
It's the draughts in the old house that suck out all the heat. We have insulated our bedroom, if it's calm it's cosy but when the wind was blowing 2 weeks ago, wasn't much better than the rest of the house.
If anything a smaller house would do us, as some rooms we are never in from one week to the next. But if you don't heat them damp just forms.
 

Bald n Grumpy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Class Q is a Permitted Development right that allows agricultural buildings to be converted to houses without full planning permission. You still need to seek Prior Approval from the council but they have very limited grounds to refuse on and if you can tick all the boxes then you will get a new dwelling in a location that would normally be resisted. It is then commonplace to apply for full planning for futher changes to the design or to completely demolish it and start again; the Class Q is used as a fallback position and worst comes to the worst you have a barn conversion!

EDIT: Class Q is only available in England - National Parks are also excluded.
Wales here but thanks for the info
 
What’s the construction method of original house? Mate renovated his old house, ripped everything out leaving just stone and lime wall s then extended where he needed and rebuilt. Ended up with new house performance with old house aesthetics. Whichever way you go it won’t be cheap.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
Renovation will always be a compromise.

I know several people who have told me, "I wish we'd knocked it down and started afresh, it would have cost less and made a better job." Nothing to stop you using old bricks and beams etc on a new build.

Make sure you fit MVHR and under floor heating. Game changer.
Spot on.

We rebuilt the old farmhouse as bitch of Planner who came here as part of a prelim conversation, told us the building had architectural merit and she would not agree to a knock down and rebuild and we had to keep the old footprint. Turned out, 12 months too late, she was lying and she had no authority to veto a new build.... :mad:

So we knocked the old property down, to 3 walls, put on a big new extension with PD, and rebuilt the old place. Would I do it again, not a chance in hell. Far too many compromises and additional costs.

Said Planner, left shortly after under a bit of a cloud...
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
Thank you for that ,sounds like worth the effort in the long run.I know the feeling ,about not letting the fire s going out, the heat just disappears in a instant here, even with double glazing and a foot of insulation in the roof.
Only a foot we have double that ie 400mm on top of ceilings then further 200mm between rafters. Only time you can tell is when it snows and our house is the last to lose the snow.
 
Only a foot we have double that ie 400mm on top of ceilings then further 200mm between rafters. Only time you can tell is when it snows and our house is the last to lose the snow.
we renovated the extension on the back of the house, 100mm of celotex under floor, 100mm of jablight on the outside of the walls, 25mm of celotex backed board on the inside (dry lined dot and dab) and 100mm under the rafters, then 70 mm between the rafters. Now I wonder if I should have put more in!
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
we renovated the extension on the back of the house, 100mm of celotex under floor, 100mm of jablight on the outside of the walls, 25mm of celotex backed board on the inside (dry lined dot and dab) and 100mm under the rafters, then 70 mm between the rafters. Now I wonder if I should have put more in!
When you get to the heat loss level of a thermos flask then you can be happy that you have enough insulation.
 

Kidds

Member
Horticulture
Do you have any damp problems with insulating the outside walls, I also get so fed up living in such a cold house gets worse as you get older.Was wondering if outside insulation might be the way, thanks
Current temperature in kitchen dining and living room is 25C, missus has been in charge of heating!
That is just off logs, I have no idea why we need it that hot but it is also doing the cooking and hot water and I expect the bathroom is even hotter.
I don't think damp stands much chance. :D
 

br jones

Member
depends on the state of the farmhouse ,is it a nice looking place, or is it like a lot of farm houses a dogs dinner of bits added on here and there
we are doing one now ,didnt want to knock it down ,probaly would of been cheaper but i dont like knocking older places down.
we have gutted the place ,just left 4 outside walls,new roof ,new floors whole shebang
 

devonbeef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon UK
Current temperature in kitchen dining and living room is 25C, missus has been in charge of heating!
That is just off logs, I have no idea why we need it that hot but it is also doing the cooking and hot water and I expect the bathroom is even hotter.
I don't think damp stands much chance. :D
no true i think that heat will dry the walls and you out well,maybe not a bad thing considering how wet its been this afternoon.
 

Mur Huwcun

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North West Wales
If you could get good, trusted like minded builders I’m sure you could knock half the house down, dig footings and get it back up on its feet with blocks or timber frame very quick!! We actually did with one gable end that was cracked!! It was down, cleared, footing dug and concrete poured in a day. Brickies fair play didn’t hang about either when they were happy to start!!
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
depends on the state of the farmhouse ,is it a nice looking place, or is it like a lot of farm houses a dogs dinner of bits added on here and there
we are doing one now ,didnt want to knock it down ,probaly would of been cheaper but i dont like knocking older places down.
we have gutted the place ,just left 4 outside walls,new roof ,new floors whole shebang
Still a PITA working around the old structure I found.... still finding the same, 11 years later!
 

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Five nature-recovery projects spanning 100,000ha launched

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Written by Michelle Martin from Agriland

Image-source-Savills-field-640x360.jpg
Five nature-recovery projects spanning nearly 100,000ha across the West Midlands, Cambridgeshire, the Peak District, Norfolk and Somerset have been announced by the government and Natural England today (Thursday, May 26).

This is the equivalent in size to all 219 current National Reserves.

The aim of the projects is to deliver nature recovery at a landscape scale, helping to tackle biodiversity loss, climate change and improve public health and well-being.

All five projects will make a significant contribution towards the national delivery of the international commitment to protect at least 30% of land and...
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