Renovation or new build

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
A lot of material are going up 17.5%. some even more from the 1st Jan, blocks are a 4 week back order, glass is hit n miss, insulation has come down a bit but ni on doubled since covid, which ever way you go it will be a lot more expensive, but without seeing your starting point difficult for people to say, old = character + hidden work, new = better insulated, always going forward 90% of the time, but costly to put character in,
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
I wonder if the increase in cost of timber will see more block and brick homes built instead of the quick build timber frames
Timber prices have come down a fair bit. Prefer 2 skins of blockwork if it was for me to live in, doesn't cost any more on a single house build but you lose a bit of space as you need 100mm cavity
 

Mur Huwcun

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North West Wales
Could you start renovations of the old house and have an “accident”

I’m sure he could decide to widen a window or fancy a new one or opening in the stone wall, two acrows and a 6*2 will be grand…..

On a serious note though we had to take out a renovation plan insurance cover for 12 months as we were project managing. Was about three to four times the premium of what it is now as a home!!!
 

Kidds

Member
Horticulture
Sourcing materials was a big issue for me. I made sure all materials were on site well before they were needed because it was always very likely to be told sorry, we don't have any plaster, plasterboard, insulation, roofing materials etc etc insert any building material you like.
At the end of the renovation I had a pack of 50mm insulation sheets leftover and 8 bags of plaster went out of date and got skipped, that is all and that is nothing short of a bloody miracle.
Longest wait was 9 months for new doors and windows and you won't believe how many times I went in and asked where are my feckin windows. It didn't hold anything up though to be honest and they came eventually. Patio doors were second hand off facebook and were meant as a temporary measure until we felt it was the right time to try and order new. Another miracle finding second hand in the right colour and some that fitted the hole but I managed it. I'm keeping them too as I like them better than what I was going to buy.
A great deal of forward planning and a good helping of pure luck got me through. I built a new bungalow and a Dutch barn at the same time as it goes and when we look back at what we did achieve while the world fell to pieces amazes me. :)
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
Sourcing materials was a big issue for me. I made sure all materials were on site well before they were needed because it was always very likely to be told sorry, we don't have any plaster, plasterboard, insulation, roofing materials etc etc insert any building material you like.
At the end of the renovation I had a pack of 50mm insulation sheets leftover and 8 bags of plaster went out of date and got skipped, that is all and that is nothing short of a bloody miracle.
Longest wait was 9 months for new doors and windows and you won't believe how many times I went in and asked where are my feckin windows. It didn't hold anything up though to be honest and they came eventually. Patio doors were second hand off facebook and were meant as a temporary measure until we felt it was the right time to try and order new. Another miracle finding second hand in the right colour and some that fitted the hole but I managed it. I'm keeping them too as I like them better than what I was going to buy.
A great deal of forward planning and a good helping of pure luck got me through. I built a new bungalow and a Dutch barn at the same time as it goes and when we look back at what we did achieve while the world fell to pieces amazes me. :)
First month into covid plaster was trading at around £80 a bag!!! Suppliers shut and jobs needed finishing to get bills in, world went mad! And getting worse!
 

Kidds

Member
Horticulture
First month into covid plaster was trading at around £80 a bag!!! Suppliers shut and jobs needed finishing to get bills in, world went mad! And getting worse!
The plastering contractor I was using was allowed to buy 5 bags a week from the local builders merchant he uses. What feckin use was 5 bags a week to a contractor with 5 men on the go?
It wasn't always about price, you couldn't get any full stop. I misjudged timing a little and it meant 8 bags went out of date, plasterers tried to use them but they were no good, merchant had plenty in stock by then so just got some more to do the job.
Slates went from in stock to 12 week wait minimum. Battens went from 40p/m to £1.20 if you could get them, cement just not available etc. Staying well ahead of the game was the only way through.
The one bit I am still puzzled about is the plumber is owed a lot of money for work and materials and about 12 months on still hasn't asked for it. He needs to do about half a days work to finish off and then submit his bill for circa £10k. He must have laid out over £3k on materials.
 

Adeptandy

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
PE15
If you can I would recommend start from fresh every time. It will be a much better, easier house. Will be insulated to the max, layout will be spot on and you can claim the vat back. £60k is a lot of money back from £300k.
But you can do a lot for £60k
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
The plastering contractor I was using was allowed to buy 5 bags a week from the local builders merchant he uses. What feckin use was 5 bags a week to a contractor with 5 men on the go?
It wasn't always about price, you couldn't get any full stop. I misjudged timing a little and it meant 8 bags went out of date, plasterers tried to use them but they were no good, merchant had plenty in stock by then so just got some more to do the job.
Slates went from in stock to 12 week wait minimum. Battens went from 40p/m to £1.20 if you could get them, cement just not available etc. Staying well ahead of the game was the only way through.
The one bit I am still puzzled about is the plumber is owed a lot of money for work and materials and about 12 months on still hasn't asked for it. He needs to do about half a days work to finish off and then submit his bill for circa £10k. He must have laid out over £3k on materials.
You never see a poor plumber, always got good vans, all what you say and have experienced is a good account of how it all went! 👍
 

Werzle

Member
Location
Midlands
The plastering contractor I was using was allowed to buy 5 bags a week from the local builders merchant he uses. What feckin use was 5 bags a week to a contractor with 5 men on the go?
It wasn't always about price, you couldn't get any full stop. I misjudged timing a little and it meant 8 bags went out of date, plasterers tried to use them but they were no good, merchant had plenty in stock by then so just got some more to do the job.
Slates went from in stock to 12 week wait minimum. Battens went from 40p/m to £1.20 if you could get them, cement just not available etc. Staying well ahead of the game was the only way through.
The one bit I am still puzzled about is the plumber is owed a lot of money for work and materials and about 12 months on still hasn't asked for it. He needs to do about half a days work to finish off and then submit his bill for circa £10k. He must have laid out over £3k on materials.
Alot of builders were seen leaving the likes of B&Q with as much as they were allowed to buy🤣
 
Farmhouse is needing a bit of work. New roof, windows and probably strip the lath and plaster off and stud and insulate. Can be very cold.
Or knock down and build a new timber frame.
Comfort and warmth in my mind comes before architectural features and looks.
Has anyone done this or has opinions.
Thanks
Do you have any damp problems with insulating the outside walls, I also get so fed up living in such a cold house gets worse as you get older.Was wondering if outside insulation might be the way, thanks

If you decide to renovate, would a render finish look out of place?If not give serious thought to external insulation rather than stud and insulate, especially if you are replacing doors and windows and reroofing.

Not the best but a bit of a guide here

https://passivehouseplus.co.uk/magazine/guides/the-ph-guide-to-external-insulation
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
if it cost 300k to build it would be roughly a 900k house. 33% plot cost, 33% build cost, 33% profit and planning, utilities and services cost

in this case you can probably replace the plot cost with demolition cost, which should be far less.
 

devonbeef

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon UK
If you decide to renovate, would a render finish look out of place?If not give serious thought to external insulation rather than stud and insulate, especially if you are replacing doors and windows and reroofing.

Not the best but a bit of a guide here

https://passivehouseplus.co.uk/magazine/guides/the-ph-guide-to-external-insulation
very good link, sounds interesting,but expensive, i would think getting the specialist people in to make sure the detail is right around windows , cold bridging ,etc .I am favouring 1 room at a time internally insulating ,i helped a family member insulate a ex council house, we did it all are self s bar electrician. A downside is that it makes room smaller, luckily for us not to much of a concern as rooms are good size.
 

Uggman

Member
Livestock Farmer
Surely if you buy the materials slowly you and got a nice friendy builder you can put them against the farm accounts for repairs and vat we once built a water storage tank once that had tiles , a ladder and a net to play water volleyball for a farmer 🤔 . second point is no one wants to tell you is that these modern timber houses aren't built to last people are just buying plots but some of these old farm houses are good for hundreds of years depending on your shaet of repair but I would go for renovated and a 200k renovation is not a patch up job it will see a timber framed house out easily.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Surely if you buy the materials slowly you and got a nice friendy builder you can put them against the farm accounts for repairs and vat we once built a water storage tank once that had tiles , a ladder and a net to play water volleyball for a farmer 🤔 . second point is no one wants to tell you is that these modern timber houses aren't built to last people are just buying plots but some of these old farm houses are good for hundreds of years depending on your shaet of repair but I would go for renovated and a 200k renovation is not a patch up job it will see a timber framed house out easily.
A 200k renovation would just get you a house that would cost 100-150k to build from scratch in 2 skins of block (no timber frame) and be much warmer. Renovation is far far more expensive than building new, and despite what people think timber framing is not cheaper on a single house build.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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