Renovation or new build

Uggman

Member
Livestock Farmer
Don't think you're build the you want for 100-150k but depending on house it will go a long way with renovation!
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
A 200k renovation would just get you a house that would cost 100-150k to build from scratch in 2 skins of block (no timber frame) and be much warmer. Renovation is far far more expensive than building new, and despite what people think timber framing is not cheaper on a single house build.
how do you know? he hasn't put any pics up so you are just grasping at straws! we dont know how good or bad his starting point is! plus why up here in the lakes do old character house sell for stupid money? i built my own house, cheapest part is the shell! the cost is inside! fitting out, luckly my family are all the trades but i did most myself! you would be lucky if you can get a good plot for 150k, i wouldnt have a timber frame given! wood is crap, mass produced to be competitive, then you still have to put another skin on, i bet in years to come a lot wont be mortgageable! ,
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
how do you know? he hasn't put any pics up so you are just grasping at straws! we dont know how good or bad his starting point is! plus why up here in the lakes do old character house sell for stupid money? i built my own house, cheapest part is the shell! the cost is inside! fitting out, luckly my family are all the trades but i did most myself! you would be lucky if you can get a good plot for 150k, i wouldnt have a timber frame given! wood is crap, mass produced to be competitive, then you still have to put another skin on, i bet in years to come a lot wont be mortgageable! ,
You answered your own question, because they are in the lakes. I never suggested timber frames, I don't like them. Nothing wrong with 2 skins of blockwork. Again you answered your own question, cheapest part is the shell, and fitting out is expensive, but fitting out a new shell is far far cheaper than fitting out an old building, hence why a new build is cheaper, unless you are starting from a modern building in reasonable condition.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
You answered your own question, because they are in the lakes. I never suggested timber frames, I don't like them. Nothing wrong with 2 skins of blockwork. Again you answered your own question, cheapest part is the shell, and fitting out is expensive, but fitting out a new shell is far far cheaper than fitting out an old building, hence why a new build is cheaper, unless you are starting from a modern building in reasonable condition.
no! you nor i know what his starting point is! new build is better, but he may not be allowed! all pie in the sky!
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
no! you nor i know what his starting point is! new build is better, but he may not be allowed! all pie in the sky!
if its lath and plaster, need a roof and wondows, then its not a modern building in reasonable condition. and as hes asked the question, you would assume that rebuild is allowed, otherwise why ask.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
if its lath and plaster, need a roof and wondows, then its not a modern building in reasonable condition. and as hes asked the question, you would assume that rebuild is allowed, otherwise why ask.
he might just have no idea whats involved! with all the price rises its gonna put a lot of extra £'s on to which ever way he goes! everything in all aspects is rising,
 
Know exactly what cost is involved and it's scary no matter which way I go. Have done some costings and everyone says 50% more than 3/4 years ago.
But was also thinking long term, as fuel no doubt will get more expensive and kerosene will be frowned upon and done away with if Nicole gets her way.
 
Know exactly what cost is involved and it's scary no matter which way I go. Have done some costings and everyone says 50% more than 3/4 years ago.
But was also thinking long term, as fuel no doubt will get more expensive and kerosene will be frowned upon and done away with if Nicole gets her way.
We are getting quotes in for new build now, fixed price for whole job. Pre Covid was expecting a top price of £2000.00 / sq m, probably less, Quotes are £3100 to £3950/ sq m . Brick build , slate roof, GSHP , UFH, MVHR , triple glazed etc.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
We are getting quotes in for new build now, fixed price for whole job. Pre Covid was expecting a top price of £2000.00 / sq m, probably less, Quotes are £3100 to £3950/ sq m . Brick build , slate roof, GSHP , UFH, MVHR , triple glazed etc.
What you were expecting pre covid was extremely optimistic for that spec. The biggest problem with domestic work is people always expect things to cost much less than they do.
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Know exactly what cost is involved and it's scary no matter which way I go. Have done some costings and everyone says 50% more than 3/4 years ago.
But was also thinking long term, as fuel no doubt will get more expensive and kerosene will be frowned upon and done away with if Nicole gets her way.
Personally I would have absolutely no worries about fitting an oil boiler in a new house. It is potentially the cheapest form of heating at he moment, depending on when you buy and what deal you get. I would run the CH flow and return in 28mm though so if you wanted to fit a heat pump in 20 years it would be easy.
 

Speedstar

Member
Location
Scottish Borders
We are getting quotes in for new build now, fixed price for whole job. Pre Covid was expecting a top price of £2000.00 / sq m, probably less, Quotes are £3100 to £3950/ sq m . Brick build , slate roof, GSHP , UFH, MVHR , triple glazed etc.
you are about spot on our house would have cost twice as much to build now as when we did it, the question is will the cost of things come down again ?, ball park figure how much per sq meter to renovate a old stone house or barn to a high standard house now in a new build one is north of 3K per meter.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
We are getting quotes in for new build now, fixed price for whole job. Pre Covid was expecting a top price of £2000.00 / sq m, probably less, Quotes are £3100 to £3950/ sq m . Brick build , slate roof, GSHP , UFH, MVHR , triple glazed etc.
fixed price! braver man than me! unless they are taking a risk on a high quote! personally i wouldnt want the hassle, so many things have changed! all this Foreign slate paving is going through the roof and supply is getting very low, a lot of upvc products are not quiet back up to pre covid levels, insulation and some wood has come down but not much! terrible if somebody has had all these drawings in place and been saving money for a bit to finally make a start! soul destroying!
 

Flatlander

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lorette Manitoba
Surely if you buy the materials slowly you and got a nice friendy builder you can put them against the farm accounts for repairs and vat we once built a water storage tank once that had tiles , a ladder and a net to play water volleyball for a farmer 🤔 . second point is no one wants to tell you is that these modern timber houses aren't built to last people are just buying plots but some of these old farm houses are good for hundreds of years depending on your shaet of repair but I would go for renovated and a 200k renovation is not a patch up job it will see a timber framed house out easily.
Creative accounting can save a pile of money, we have a swimming pool that was on farm fire fighting storage system. Seven years has passed so I’m out of the woods now with revenue Canada.
 
i wouldnt have a timber frame given! wood is crap, mass produced to be competitive, then you still have to put another skin on, i bet in years to come a lot wont be mortgageable! ,
I assume from your post that your house doesn’t contain any structural timber for floor joists or roof.

Timber frames are not a new construction method and are proven. Structural timber is structural timber and is graded and proved in that way. Whether a block wall holds up a roof or an engineered timber structure holds up a roof is horses for courses, the key thing in each is the design and maintaining it in a serviceable state.
Timber frame and traditional build each have there advantages and disadvantages but to say a timber frame will be unmortgageable in years to come is questionable.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
I assume from your post that your house doesn’t contain any structural timber for floor joists or roof.

Timber frames are not a new construction method and are proven. Structural timber is structural timber and is graded and proved in that way. Whether a block wall holds up a roof or an engineered timber structure holds up a roof is horses for courses, the key thing in each is the design and maintaining it in a serviceable state.
Timber frame and traditional build each have there advantages and disadvantages but to say a timber frame will be unmortgageable in years to come is questionable.
A few old timber framed houses built 50’ 60’s maybe, mortgage lenders would not lend on them, I know of 2 architects offices that will not draw or work on timber frame any more, wood is not what it used to be, maybe time will tell, my own house is block cavity, pumped, steels and traditional slate roof,
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
A few old timber framed houses built 50’ 60’s maybe, mortgage lenders would not lend on them, I know of 2 architects offices that will not draw or work on timber frame any more, wood is not what it used to be, maybe time will tell, my own house is block cavity, pumped, steels and traditional slate roof,
I think you will find that if unmortgagable it is almost never the fault of the timber frame. A lot of houses of that era are timber frame and precast concrete, it is the precast concrete that makes them unmortgagable unless you have a MUNDIC test certificate. If I was building for myself I'd choose block but if done correctly there's nothing wrong with timber frame.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
I think you will find that if unmortgagable it is almost never the fault of the timber frame. A lot of houses of that era are timber frame and precast concrete, it is the precast concrete that makes them unmortgagable unless you have a MUNDIC test certificate. If I was building for myself I'd choose block but if done correctly there's nothing wrong with timber frame.
Maybe just the lender criteria, all timber maybe a chalaiot , wood rots at bottom, plus lack of insulation, to me our climate is too wet too often
 

dave mountain

Member
Livestock Farmer
Maybe just the lender criteria, all timber maybe a chalaiot , wood rots at bottom, plus lack of insulation, to me our climate is too wet too often
i thought it would be common sense that chalets are unmortgagable, be like trying to mortgage a static caravan. nothing wrong with a correctly built timber frame house.
 

Lakes Nash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South lakes
i thought it would be common sense that chalets are unmortgagable, be like trying to mortgage a static caravan. nothing wrong with a correctly built timber frame house.
Correctly ! But older may not have regs, and a lot of timber framed house were called a chalet up here, not the modern version if you get my drift, plus no pre cast in em, also a lot of FC houses, big % sold off and 2nd outer skin applied
 

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Five nature-recovery projects spanning 100,000ha launched

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Written by Michelle Martin from Agriland

Image-source-Savills-field-640x360.jpg
Five nature-recovery projects spanning nearly 100,000ha across the West Midlands, Cambridgeshire, the Peak District, Norfolk and Somerset have been announced by the government and Natural England today (Thursday, May 26).

This is the equivalent in size to all 219 current National Reserves.

The aim of the projects is to deliver nature recovery at a landscape scale, helping to tackle biodiversity loss, climate change and improve public health and well-being.

All five projects will make a significant contribution towards the national delivery of the international commitment to protect at least 30% of land and...
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