Rent farm land for outdoor nursery

helene

Member
Hello

I run an outdoor nursery group for children aged 2-5. Inspired by Scandinavian traditions we play and learn outdoors come rain or shine. I think a perfect setup for us would be renting around 10acres of farmland - ideally some redundant woodland, or a field where we are allowed to have natural play structures and tipis. We would also need some basic facilities like a barn for extreme weather, some parking and storage.

Because we don't need an indoor site we can offer quite a lot in rent for the right setup. For 80 children around £30-50K depending on location and facilities. Do you think this would be an attractive offering for a farm compared to other diversification projects?

I also wonder if we are allowed using the farmland with children. I guess we are considered a commercial operation (not agricultural) so wonder if it needs a change of planning or how do you deal with other similar projects?

And finally, would you know of any farms in Surrey, Windsor or Bucks (not too far from the M25) that would be interested in renting to us?

Hope you can help :)
 
Hello

I run an outdoor nursery group for children aged 2-5. Inspired by Scandinavian traditions we play and learn outdoors come rain or shine. I think a perfect setup for us would be renting around 10acres of farmland - ideally some redundant woodland, or a field where we are allowed to have natural play structures and tipis. We would also need some basic facilities like a barn for extreme weather, some parking and storage.

Because we don't need an indoor site we can offer quite a lot in rent for the right setup. For 80 children around £30-50K depending on location and facilities. Do you think this would be an attractive offering for a farm compared to other diversification projects?

I also wonder if we are allowed using the farmland with children. I guess we are considered a commercial operation (not agricultural) so wonder if it needs a change of planning or how do you deal with other similar projects?

And finally, would you know of any farms in Surrey, Windsor or Bucks (not too far from the M25) that would be interested in renting to us?

Hope you can help :)
Hi @helene,

Sounds like an interesting nursery and I wish you well in your venture.

From a planning point of view you would need change of use from agricultural to education. Depending on the site and the land designations (you will be looking at Green Belt and possibly AONB's in the area you described) you may need to include Landscape Visual Impact Assessments, Transport Statements and Primary Ecological Appraisals. You may also be asked for a business plan and 5 year forecast.

providing the site is deemed viable in planning terms you may only be granted a temporary permission (3 years for example) - this is to ensure if the business does not suceed or you find another loation that the site is returned to it original state. My advice would be to offer this from the outset rather than wait to be asked, it will put you in good favour.

We work across Kent, the South East and the Home Counties so if you do find a site we would be happy to provide an appraisal prior to you making any commitments.
 

helene

Member
Thank you so much for this reply it's really helpful! I did fear that it would be difficult to do something like this in the greenbelt. Such a shame as the children really benefit from being outdoors in nature.
 

Whitewalker

Member
Hello

I run an outdoor nursery group for children aged 2-5. Inspired by Scandinavian traditions we play and learn outdoors come rain or shine. I think a perfect setup for us would be renting around 10acres of farmland - ideally some redundant woodland, or a field where we are allowed to have natural play structures and tipis. We would also need some basic facilities like a barn for extreme weather, some parking and storage.

Because we don't need an indoor site we can offer quite a lot in rent for the right setup. For 80 children around £30-50K depending on location and facilities. Do you think this would be an attractive offering for a farm compared to other diversification projects?

I also wonder if we are allowed using the farmland with children. I guess we are considered a commercial operation (not agricultural) so wonder if it needs a change of planning or how do you deal with other similar projects?

And finally, would you know of any farms in Surrey, Windsor or Bucks (not too far from the M25) that would be interested in renting to us?

Hope you can help :)
What’s your vision or have you links to show what you are aspiring to achieve?
 

helene

Member
What’s your vision or have you links to show what you are aspiring to achieve?
Hi Whitewalker
Thanks for the suggestion of sharing the vision. I have created a mood board but this forum does not allow me to upload the file. Do you have an email address I can share this to?

If anyone else is interested in seeing this mood board please get in touch and I can share :)
 

Whitewalker

Member
Hi Whitewalker
Thanks for the suggestion of sharing the vision. I have created a mood board but this forum does not allow me to upload the file. Do you have an email address I can share this to?

If anyone else is interested in seeing this mood board please get in touch and I can share :)
Pm you
 
I’ve had a few goes with this before.

Don’t underestimate traffic, lots of 2 ways on drop off for that number of sprogs.

You will need good access, visibility splays and off road parking so they can turn and leave in a forward gear.

Your budget is sensible though, it’s finding the land that’s hard work for you.

Good luck, I may have somewhere in a year or two subject to other projects coming through
 
I’ve had a few goes with this before.

Don’t underestimate traffic, lots of 2 ways on drop off for that number of sprogs.

You will need good access, visibility splays and off road parking so they can turn and leave in a forward gear.

Your budget is sensible though, it’s finding the land that’s hard work for you.

Good luck, I may have somewhere in a year or two subject to other projects coming through
Great post. So many people forget about the highways impact of developments, it is one of the hardest elements to satisfy despite the requirements being clear.
260m of visibility in each direction is very difficult to achieve on a national speed limit lane!
 
Great post. So many people forget about the highways impact of developments, it is one of the hardest elements to satisfy despite the requirements being clear.
260m of visibility in each direction is very difficult to achieve on a national speed limit lane!

Our local highways guy is an utter plonker, we don’t think he has a car and goes everywhere by bike. As you say, it kills a lot of projects dead, 120 cars dropping off and collecting each day, plus staff is a biggie
 

helene

Member
Great - I've
Our local highways guy is an utter plonker, we don’t think he has a car and goes everywhere by bike. As you say, it kills a lot of projects dead, 120 cars dropping off and collecting each day, plus staff is a biggie
These are really helpful comments. Thank you!

I have seen a farm that may be suitable because it already has planning in place for one of the buildings (for "commercial use"). I wonder though if we are allowed to use the adjacent field (which is "agricultural"). Since we are an outdoor nursery we want to be on the field most of the time - is that alright or does that need a change of planning too you think?

Regarding the road there is space for two-way system in and out but the 260m visibility you mention might be really tricky because the road has a bend - would a mirror suffice you think?
 

helene

Member
I’ve had a few goes with this before.

Don’t underestimate traffic, lots of 2 ways on drop off for that number of sprogs.

You will need good access, visibility splays and off road parking so they can turn and leave in a forward gear.

Your budget is sensible though, it’s finding the land that’s hard work for you.

Good luck, I may have somewhere in a year or two subject to other projects coming through
Yes I hope our budget should be attractive. Where about are your potential sites located? A year from now would be a good timeline for us
 
Great - I've

These are really helpful comments. Thank you!

I have seen a farm that may be suitable because it already has planning in place for one of the buildings (for "commercial use"). I wonder though if we are allowed to use the adjacent field (which is "agricultural"). Since we are an outdoor nursery we want to be on the field most of the time - is that alright or does that need a change of planning too you think?

Regarding the road there is space for two-way system in and out but the 260m visibility you mention might be really tricky because the road has a bend - would a mirror suffice you think?
If there is an existing access then you would only need to justify how the intensification of the access would affect the highways infrastructure and road safety - an existing access is always preferable over a new access.
As for the field and change of use you should still apply for change of use.
The 'commercial' building will still need change of use as Education is not Commercial but having a Commercial use there already does clear some hurdles that you would have had if it was agricultural.
 

helene

Member
I actually think we will be okay for the building because since September 2020 Day Nurseries and creches are considered Class E (not Class F: Education).

Do you know how difficult it is to change a field's use? I guess neighbors may obstruct? What kind of assessments would you guys normally need to do in this regard?
 
I actually think we will be okay for the building because since September 2020 Day Nurseries and creches are considered Class E (not Class F: Education).

Do you know how difficult it is to change a field's use? I guess neighbors may obstruct? What kind of assessments would you guys normally need to do in this regard?
You are correct, if your use falls within Class E and so does the approved use then they are interchangable without the need for planning permission.

For the field, providing it is for use in conjuction with an already lawful use of the building I would not expect it to be complex application - the main consideration would be the impact on neighbours in terms of noise and privacy, this could be resolved through some soft planting and/or operating hours.

You would need to consider whether any structures placed on the land would need planning permission; without knowing specifics of the site and the business it would be difficult to say if they would be acceptable.

You may be asked for a Preliminary Ecological Assessment (PEA) to ensure your proposals won't effect any protected species.
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
If you link up with a woodland school your ambitions will be a lot easier. If you fancy a summer break in Lancashire I could arrange a summer school.
 
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helene

Member
If you link up with a woodland school your ambitions will be a lot easier. If you fancy a summer break in Lancashire I could arrange a summer school.
Lancashire is a bit of a way but sounds wonderful!

How do you mean? If we don't run from a farm but a woodland instead?

We can easily find woodland but because we need some facilities for parking, emergency weather, sleeps and dark winter days we think a farm (with a building) will work better.
 

helene

Member
You are correct, if your use falls within Class E and so does the approved use then they are interchangable without the need for planning permission.

For the field, providing it is for use in conjuction with an already lawful use of the building I would not expect it to be complex application - the main consideration would be the impact on neighbours in terms of noise and privacy, this could be resolved through some soft planting and/or operating hours.

You would need to consider whether any structures placed on the land would need planning permission; without knowing specifics of the site and the business it would be difficult to say if they would be acceptable.

You may be asked for a Preliminary Ecological Assessment (PEA) to ensure your proposals won't effect any protected species.
Yes I did think about neighbours potentially being upset with noise and also their view. Right now their windows give away views over a field and not sure if they would like the view of children running around on this field. Can they object for that reason you think?
 
Yes I did think about neighbours potentially being upset with noise and also their view. Right now their windows give away views over a field and not sure if they would like the view of children running around on this field. Can they object for that reason you think?
They don't have a right to a view but most would object on that basis - objections are par for the course but only make a difference if they are relevant to planning policy. Providing you can demonstrate sufficient distance between you and they're sensitive areas (generally bedrooms, lounges and patio areas) or some form of screening that means your operation does not affect their day to day living with noise or invasion of privacy then you should be fine.
 
Yes I did think about neighbours potentially being upset with noise and also their view. Right now their windows give away views over a field and not sure if they would like the view of children running around on this field. Can they object for that reason you think?

The only way to protect your view is to buy it.

No one has the right to it, but they do to quiet enjoyment I think.
 

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