Rent Per acre without BPS

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
Current rent minus BPS

That depends on what the current rent is and what kind of tenancy it is. a £60/acre AHA won't stand an £80-90/ac rent reduction, nor would it allow the landowner to claim BPS and Countryside Stewardship (CS). You've got to look at what you are required to do for the landlord's CS and BPS beyond merely cross complying for BPS. For low input and species rich grass attracting hundreds of £/ha in CS payments I can see a lot of less productive land having to pay to find tenants to manage it for them, plus the CS prescriptions will seriously limit what you can do on it.

Perhaps a contract farming agreement would be a better way of sharing the risk of accidentally straying into a CS option with spray drift or a cultivator that jeopardises the landlord's payments?

@westwood - can you give any more details or is just a theoretical discussion? For Grade 3 arable with no cropping restrictions i.e. CS limited to field margins and plots outside the agreement I'd say you might have to pay a bit and "current rent minus BPS" isn't a bad starting point. I've had rent reviews with an institutional landlord where their rent model is based on half the farming profits, so if you're making a rotational crop gross margin of £250/acre minus £100/ac labour & machinery and £50/ac other overheads that's £100/ac margin plus BPS. That suggests around £50/acre rent without BPS then reduce it further for the lack of your opportunity to create your own CS on the more marginal areas. Offer £20/acre rent and start the haggling from there.
 
Anyone paying £100/ac is loosing half their gross margin in rent alone. Whilst you might be making money you could easily earn the same living stacking shelves and have a pension and health care. I repeat... Anything over £40/ac and you are being a busy fool!
I see your plan, tell everyone there wrong, so they all forfit there tennancys, then old @kamloops swoops in and takes the lot.
 

pappuller

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
M6 Hard shoulder
Anyone paying £100/ac is loosing half their gross margin in rent alone. Whilst you might be making money you could easily earn the same living stacking shelves and have a pension and health care. I repeat... Anything over £40/ac and you are being a busy fool!
Gathering land at these figures you talk of, only in my dreams. You far from Aylesbury ??
 

kamloops

Member
Location
Kent
Busy fool, but happy fool. As long as I can pay my bills I'd sooner be farming than stacking shelves. You cannot put a price on having a job you enjoy.
This is very true and I fully admit an enjoyable job is worth more than money alone. But its crazy what some farmers pay. (In reality every area is different and £100ac might be a different figure entirely in the uplands or further west)
Isn't the real scandal that we are paying rent to anybody? a farmer should farm... not collect BPS and then charge rent to a tenant who works his guts out for little return. The age of many post war generation landowners still holding on is the issue here?

As for location... we're near Canterbury in Kent. Still sizeable arable fields but not like growing up in Canada!
 

Brisel

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Midlands
This is very true and I fully admit an enjoyable job is worth more than money alone. But its crazy what some farmers pay. (In reality every area is different and £100ac might be a different figure entirely in the uplands or further west)
Isn't the real scandal that we are paying rent to anybody? a farmer should farm... not collect BPS and then charge rent to a tenant who works his guts out for little return. The age of many post war generation landowners still holding on is the issue here?

As for location... we're near Canterbury in Kent. Still sizeable arable fields but not like growing up in Canada!

If the asset value is too high to justify ownership and wouldn't be a good lock up of your cash, why not rent it?

A rich man once said, "If it flies, floats or f**ks, hire it!" Perhaps we should add "farms" to that list?
 

chipchap

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
South Shropshire
Rented farms will need to get bigger. Landlords will need to take a responsible long term view, offering available land to existing tenants at sensible rent in order that farm units can remain viable. Landlords letting available land to the highest bidder will not be looking after the long term interests of their existing tenants, and will be rewarded with poor tenants who rape the land for a few years then move on, and AHA tenants who are struggling and therefore not investing for the future either.
Best option buy your own if you can afford it, or get a job at Tesco.
 

Goweresque

Member
Location
North Wilts
£40/ acre is an insult

Wait until there's no BPS dropping into the bank accounts every December, then I'll bet you'll see plenty of landlords jumping at the chance to get tenants at £40/acre, because the alternative will be less, maybe even nothing.

We're in a Phoney War at the moment - BPS is going, but people haven't really taken that fact on board, subsidies are so ingrained in the farming psyche people can't conceive that they won't be there soon.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
Wait until there's no BPS dropping into the bank accounts every December, then I'll bet you'll see plenty of landlords jumping at the chance to get tenants at £40/acre, because the alternative will be less, maybe even nothing.

We're in a Phoney War at the moment - BPS is going, but people haven't really taken that fact on board, subsidies are so ingrained in the farming psyche people can't conceive that they won't be there soon.

I’ll be a real farmer yet :LOL:
 

MrNoo

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Cirencester
Any AD plant will virtually add a zero to your figures and ruins virtually ruins chances of renting for every one else
Only a few around here, one not looking too rosey and t'other has it's own ground. Trouble being I am not sure I'd want to be renting 3t wheat land esp if BG is rife, seen enough busy fools come and go in my time and I dont wish to be one of them.
 

Spanish

Member
I read this thread and the same comments would be made if Spanish farmers intervened. The subsidies have distorted the market of the land, this is all out of logic and many are going to take ahead. It is becoming clearer
 

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