Rent Per acre without BPS

[Farma Parma]

must see if i can find local rainfall from that year & compare to 2012
with my v basic gauge for 2018 which lets face it apart from the Snow was pretty dry in the end.
Yet 2017 was less total rainfall, figure that one out....
Dad never whinged about the rain in 1985 that much i dont think, we had much less grain back then tho.
Had Animals so more grass.
I can remember one harvest unsure when be easily 20+ years ago now & we struggled to cut much till later in the afternoon & talking
too our neighbours on the CB one of these days & the lad says oh whats the moisture of your wheat, to which i replied
Its down to 23% so weve made a start....
We cut 150ac that year like that.

Edit Rain in 2018 was 620mm give or take it yet 2017 just under 590mm
Am sure we nearly hit a metre in 2012
The worse ive ever seen in 36hrs was 6&1/4" YES INCHES solid first week of August that year

 

[Farma Parma]

The total rainfall for the UK during 2012 was 1,330.7mm (52.4in), just 6.6mm short of the record set in 2000
No mention of 1985 yet, still looking

 

[Goweresque]

If you look at the stats for 1985 rainfall, its noticeable that it got steadily worse, August being one of the wettest Augusts on record, which probably accounts for the negative memories - a summer that starts horrendously wet but gets better (1980 was such a summer, horrendous June, average July+Aug) will be remembered better than one that starts a bit wet then gets worse with every passing day. Though oddly enough the Augusts of 1992 and 2004 were both wetter, and no one particularly remembers those years.

I have theory that 1985 is seared in people's memories because it was the first absolute stinker of a summer for probably the best part of 30 years - throughout the 60s and 70s summers were far drier on average than today. You have to go back to the mid 50s to get as wet a summer as '85. Yet by the standards of the last 15 years it wasn't 'that' bad - 2012 was higher rainfall by some margin, as was 2007. So I think it was the shock - people weren't used to it, and had gotten used to drier conditions.

 

[Cowcorn]

Rent him a 15ft strip along the hedge to his other parcel of land for E5000 and you have the money and still the pleasure of farming it.
Make the most of any opportunity when they present themselves.
worth it all day long to him to not have to walk on the road and clean everyday.

That sounds like a plan five grand for a cow pass .
If you see an ass RIDE IT !!!!!!!

 

[Tarw Coch]

The total rainfall for the UK during 2012 was 1,330.7mm (52.4in), just 6.6mm short of the record set in 2000
No mention of 1985 yet, still looking

I would imagine there are wet calendar years and wet seasons, abnormally wet or for that matter dry seasons can be more memorable than total annual rainfall .

There’s also regional variations, I know from reading on here there have been parts of the country where some summers have been a complete disaster wet weather wise whilst here it’s been a generaly good or slightly wetter than usual year. No doubt our personal experiences colour our judgement, this summer has been by far the worst I’ve seen for dry weather, a rep I know who travels a large area f the country reckons this area was worse affected than many others, some on here claim last year was their ideal summer, they must have either had more rainfall or farm wetter land or a combination of both.

 

[Wombat]

I would imagine there are wet calendar years and wet seasons, abnormally wet or for that matter dry seasons can be more memorable than total annual rainfall .

There’s also regional variations, I know from reading on here there have been parts of the country where some summers have been a complete disaster wet weather wise whilst here it’s been a generaly good or slightly wetter than usual year. No doubt our personal experiences colour our judgement, this summer has been by far the worst I’ve seen for dry weather, a rep I know who travels a large area f the country reckons this area was worse affected than many others, some on here claim last year was their ideal summer, they must have either had more rainfall or farm wetter land or a combination of both.

I think area and land has a lot to do with it. As you say I know some who say 2012 was a good year for them for us it was bloody awful. 2018 was very good from May onwards when it dried up for us. In fact one of our most profitable ever

 

[Will Blackburn]

That sounds like a plan five grand for a cow pass .
If you see an ass RIDE IT !!!!!!!

He won't pay that as he will have to sleeper a narrow run.

 

[7610 super q]

Ah yes....1985. Our main income was strawberries. Built an irrigation pond, started in September '84, after the dry summers of '83/ 84. Started raining in October '84. Work was abandoned. Very cold weather in Feb '85 allowed work to continue, till one very cold night when the engine oil froze in the Hymac.
As said, rained virtually every day during the summer. Hay making was abandoned. Must have lost 75% of the fruit. PYO was a disaster ( who wants to pick in the rain ), and fruit was spoiled by heavy rain anyway.

Character building.......

 

[Cowcorn]

He won't pay that as he will have to sleeper a narrow run.

No he didnt bite on the offer of a surfaced 8 metre road along the hedge , and i didnt try to bone him for five grand either. He wants the whole field and wants to remove hedges and join his existing paddocks and his leased block with a central roadway. Honest john the local land agent declined to give this punter a glowing endorsment so thats the end of that. Taxation and bps issues also have to be considered and i really dont want the hassle.

 

[GeorgeK]

It would be interesting to hear people's latest thoughts on rent without bps, especially given the challenging weather conditions of late

 

[Brisel]

It would be interesting to hear people's latest thoughts on rent without bps, especially given the challenging weather conditions of late

Do rents move that quickly? I haven't heard any different from what I'd posted at the beginning of this thread a year ago. There's so much up in the air at the moment I haven't heard much speculating. Perhaps as the Agriculture Bill goes back through parliament we'll get a clearer picture.

In short so far;

• What type of agreement? FBT or AHA?
• What are you paying now?
• When did you last have a review?
• What is local demand? Are AD feedstock, big dairies, urban areas and horse paddocks driving up demand for land?
• Buildings, yards and houses in the tenancy?
• Productivity?
• Any stewardship considerations by either party?

Previous feeling was sharing the pain of subsidy reduction/loss. If BPS is £95/acre and going to zero then I can't see rents dropping by more than half that for a currently steep FBT of over £150/acre+

 

[GeorgeK]

Do rents move that quickly? I haven't heard any different from what I'd posted at the beginning of this thread a year ago. There's so much up in the air at the moment I haven't heard much speculating. Perhaps as the Agriculture Bill goes back through parliament we'll get a clearer picture.

In short so far;

• What type of agreement? FBT or AHA?
• What are you paying now?
• When did you last have a review?
• What is local demand? Are AD feedstock, big dairies, urban areas and horse paddocks driving up demand for land?
• Buildings, yards and houses in the tenancy?
• Productivity?
• Any stewardship considerations by either party?

Previous feeling was sharing the pain of subsidy reduction/loss. If BPS is £95/acre and going to zero then I can't see rents dropping by more than half that for a currently steep FBT of over £150/acre+

Thanks, I'm keen to keep up with people's thoughts because I have decisions to make regarding my little hobby farm once BPS goes. It's looking like environment schemes, let out or contract farmed so the more information the better and hopefully I can make the right decisions at the right time. Some of the lower speculation ranges from £0 - £40 acre, which would be a concern. Unfortunately we can't see the future

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Farmers cant resist land when on offer . They will come on here and say its worth nought they go and pay £150/ace which is about where its at

 

[Farma Parma]

Do rents move that quickly? I haven't heard any different from what I'd posted at the beginning of this thread a year ago. There's so much up in the air at the moment I haven't heard much speculating. Perhaps as the Agriculture Bill goes back through parliament we'll get a clearer picture.

In short so far;

• What type of agreement? FBT or AHA?
• What are you paying now?
• When did you last have a review?
• What is local demand? Are AD feedstock, big dairies, urban areas and horse paddocks driving up demand for land?
• Buildings, yards and houses in the tenancy?
• Productivity?
• Any stewardship considerations by either party?

Previous feeling was sharing the pain of subsidy reduction/loss. If BPS is £95/acre and going to zero then I can't see rents dropping by more than half that for a currently steep FBT of over £150/acre+

Tech the AHA guidelines do very clearly state if income is forgone ie subs removed then its gotta be off the rent somehow
its what the holding can earn is how the Rent is decided along with comparable Rents on similar holdings in the Area.
Ive no Idea how folks make a living at £150/ac Rent mind.

 

[Farma Parma]

Farmers cant resist land when on offer . They will come on here and say its worth nought they go and pay £150/ace which is about where its at

Poss the biggest thing is GREED & just too show others your better than them.

 

[Brisel]

Tech the AHA guidelines do very clearly state if income is forgone ie subs removed then its gotta be off the rent somehow
its what the holding can earn is how the Rent is decided along with comparable Rents on similar holdings in the Area.
Ive no Idea how folks make a living at £150/ac Rent mind.

Guidelines are just that - guidelines. It's down to what you can negotiate at the time. I think that with a set tapering off of BPS there could be a rent reduction formula devised that tracks it downwards but without the Bill being passed into law there's little point in pressing the review notice button now IMO.

Of course the landlords' agents are going to talk the rents up and the tenants' agents talk it down. There will be comparables from that have-a-go-hero up the road who's just had his son leave college with his broken calculator and needs more land to keep the new Fendt busy - these will be used to talk rents up. I can see ELMS complicating matters - landlords wanting the guaranteed income on poorer land but having to pay tenants to comply with it by grazing at the right times, keeping scrub down, sowing & managing wild bird seed plots etc.

 

[Farma Parma]

Guidelines are just that - guidelines. It's down to what you can negotiate at the time. I think that with a set tapering off of BPS there could be a rent reduction formula devised that tracks it downwards but without the Bill being passed into law there's little point in pressing the review notice button now IMO.

Of course the landlords' agents are going to talk the rents up and the tenants' agents talk it down. There will be comparables from that have-a-go-hero up the road who's just had his son leave college with his broken calculator and needs more land to keep the new Fendt busy - these will be used to talk rents up. I can see ELMS complicating matters - landlords wanting the guaranteed income on poorer land but having to pay tenants to comply with it by grazing at the right times, keeping scrub down, sowing & managing wild bird seed plots etc.

Its gonna be a challenge getting it fair for all unsure how we get to that point tho
Even if i paid small rent without BPS iam worse off straight away thats the bigger worry

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Poss the biggest thing is GREED & just too show others your better than them.

Could be they are making a good profit out of it . When the guy who was short of fodder payed £100 for a bale of hay he was sitting pretty with his forward planning and a shed full of fodder for his cows

 

[Farma Parma]

Could be they are making a good profit out of it . When the guy who was short of fodder payed £100 for a bale of hay he was sitting pretty with his forward planning and a shed full of fodder for his cows

i think the only ones who can make £150/ac & higher pay are the Farm Owners iam afraid.

 

[Grassman]

i think the only ones who can make £150/ac & higher pay are the Farm Owners iam afraid.

They aren't though. They are just subsidising the silly rent by using land they own. So they own 100 acres which they pay zero rent and then rent 10 acres at £150 acre. His rent across the whole farm is then £13.63 acre.