Reseed, what to do ?

[ollie989898]

Good spraying there.

Can you put a break crop in there or do you intend to go straight to grass??

 

[neilo]

Why didnt you just spray the thistles out with thistlex? Some clover would have survived and you would of killed the thistles at the roots

I've never seen any clover survive Thistlex. But yes, it would kill the thistles well.

 

[neilo]

Of weed grasses! As I have already said there was no IRG or hardly any left in the sward. The thistles in the picture are dead , can't plough only rotavate. Would the seed in those pods germinate?

Was that the Olivers mix of Westerwold and crimson clover? I've just put some in to try, but with the Westerwolds replaced by their Tornado grass to avoid early heading, one of the fields being thistley like that in places. I sprayed Thistlex in early May, then cut for haylage a couple of weeks ago, Roundup on Saturday, DD yesterday.

Have those thistles flowered and gone to seed before spraying, or just big got enough to look untidy? If they've not flowered, I'd have thought you'd got a good kill there. Top it (if there's too much trash for drill) and DD into it? Would the same mix again be an option, and have a better go at any thistles that come from seed next time? Or brassica break and spray with Clorpyralid if they have gone to seed already, followed by a 'proper' reseed later, or Spring?

 

[hilux]

Was that the Olivers mix of Westerwold and crimson clover? I've just put some in to try, but with the Westerwolds replaced by their Tornado grass to avoid early heading, one of the fields being thistley like that in places. I sprayed Thistlex in early May, then cut for haylage a couple of weeks ago, Roundup on Saturday, DD yesterday.

Have those thistles flowered and gone to seed before spraying, or just big got enough to look untidy? If they've not flowered, I'd have thought you'd got a good kill there. Top it (if there's too much trash for drill) and DD into it? Would the same mix again be an option, and have a better go at any thistles that come from seed next time? Or brassica break and spray with Clorpyralid if they have gone to seed already, followed by a 'proper' reseed later, or Spring?

No ,they haven't flowered and gone to seed. Not to keen putting in a brassica as a break crop as that what last year's reseed was hoping to do. If I put a brassica break crop in then I wouldn't get a reseed in this year due to climate around here. Last year we sowed it with Proto Plus and was very pleased with the lambs we fattened on it, so could be an option. Do you think that all the weed seeds in the soil have established?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No ,they haven't flowered and gone to seed. Not to keen putting in a brassica as a break crop as that what last year's reseed was hoping to do. If I put a brassica break crop in then I wouldn't get a reseed in this year due to climate around here. Last year we sowed it with Proto Plus and was very pleased with the lambs we fattened on it, so could be an option. Do you think that all the weed seeds in the soil have established?

Get it ploughed put a proper long term seed mix in , thistles are easy to kill . As and when . . Only other option is put a flail mower to it and wait till Autumn to direct drill . That's if you want to put grass in this year
With that amount on Thistle the soil will be full of seed . You will just have to deal with it like most other farmers , as and when . Stitch some clover in when it's all sorted

Grass Seed Supplier | Hurrells Seeds | United Kingdom

Premium Grass Seed Supplier In The UK! Covering Lawn Seed, Amenity Grass Seed, Agricultural / Forage Grass Seed, Wildflower Seed, Game Cover Other Small Seeds & Wholesale To Retail Businesses. Independent seeds supplier. Yorkshire based family business (3rd generation). Defra Approved Certified...

www.hmseeds.co.uk

Check the long term mixes
If your in my area can do you a good deal on those prices

 

[neilo]

Get it ploughed put a proper long term seed mix in , thistles are easy to kill . As and when . . Only other option is put a flail mower to it and wait till Autumn to direct drill . That's if you want to put grass in this year
With that amount on Thistle the soil will be full of seed . You will just have to deal with it like most other farmers , as and when . Stitch some clover in when it's all sorted

Grass Seed Supplier | Hurrells Seeds | United Kingdom

Premium Grass Seed Supplier In The UK! Covering Lawn Seed, Amenity Grass Seed, Agricultural / Forage Grass Seed, Wildflower Seed, Game Cover Other Small Seeds & Wholesale To Retail Businesses. Independent seeds supplier. Yorkshire based family business (3rd generation). Defra Approved Certified...

www.hmseeds.co.uk

Check the long term mixes
If your in my area can do you a good deal on those prices

The OP has already said ploughing isn’t an option.

 

[ollie989898]

As much as I like suggesting brassica break crops some people don't want the grief. In this situation with a probable hefty weed burn it is probably worth doing but like anything it doesn't always suit.

Only trouble with clopyralid Neil is that it is dear as sin for what it is. Is it on-label for kale etc?

 

[neilo]

No ,they haven't flowered and gone to seed. Not to keen putting in a brassica as a break crop as that what last year's reseed was hoping to do. If I put a brassica break crop in then I wouldn't get a reseed in this year due to climate around here. Last year we sowed it with Proto Plus and was very pleased with the lambs we fattened on it, so could be an option. Do you think that all the weed seeds in the soil have established?

If the thistles haven’t gone to seed, they won’t have added to the seed bank, they’ve cone from what was already here (I see the same here, due to past management). Whatever you do, you will likely keep getting more from that seed bank and have to deal with them. It’s rare I get to put a reseed in without having to spray blw out of it.

Personally, I’d be wary of reseeding to a long term ley this early, with the risk of a dry spell through July/August yet. A cheaper ‘ProtoPlus type’ ley (Olivers’ ‘Crimson Tide’ is £32 iirc) be more vigorous/less risky given recent rain imo, or top and wait a bit before doing a proper reseed. Chance for a stale seedbed if you do that perhaps, then just glyphosate & seed?

 

[neilo]

As much as I like suggesting brassica break crops some people don't want the grief. In this situation with a probable hefty weed burn it is probably worth doing but like anything it doesn't always suit.

Only trouble with clopyralid Neil is that it is dear as sin for what it is. Is it on-label for kale etc?

Generic clopyralid isn’t too bad if thistles are the only problem, much cheaper than Shield anyway.
Not sure about Kale, but pretty sure swedes and turnips were on the label when I last had one.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

The OP has already said ploughing isn’t an option.

Flail top and disc it then .
Would you direct drill expensive seed into that
Get the seed bed ready and look at the long range forecast. Plenty of moisure in the ground and hes in South Wales the rainy country . I've been sowing seeds since march till now . Not had a fail yet

 

[ollie989898]

I would have said those were creeping thistles. I can help with the spraying and timing as and when the next crop is up. It is possible they won't really show themselves until next spring mind as they are from rootstock.