Restricions on calves?

[steveR]

I am not sure what the legal position is but a declaration implies you must keep the calf alive for 8 weeks. I guess the declaration means that it is not the dairy industry's problem - or Arla's for that matter. The early slaughter or euthanasia of that calf becomes a beef industry issue.

The timeframe means that you will have weathered the most expensive part of the calf's life and you would be weaning it or close to weaning it so would be unlikely to slaughter the calf at that point. Whilst there will be unintended consequences to this, I think it is right that the industry takes the issue seriously as it is wounding for reputation and they have to start somewhere.

It is teh word you use, "implies" that is kind of where my question was arrived from.

I fully understand your point, and have no argument whatsoever with it, however, when I saw 9 week old calves going off to slaughter, I question the rationale somewhat!

 

[Bald n Grumpy]

Build sheds, employ staff, adjust stocking rates to meet NVZ responsibilities non of it is rocket science or you can try and build some relationships with a calf rearer that you can trust?

Ultimately the worst possible place for a calf with a minimal immune system is in the mart with calves from 50 other farms, I know I used to buy them, brought every bug back going. So why take the risk with what is one of the best paying contracts out there?

Looking at some of the calves going through market its the only hope they've got that someone will buy them and look after them for the first time in their lives

 

[steveR]

It reads at both markets you were aware these were calves from an arla farm before buying, which is the way markets should be presenting them. Different markets have different ways to ensure you are aware of the obligation on the calves not to slaughter them before 8 weeks. Signing a declaration afterwards is just another way of ensuring you are aware of the scheme and as said above as long as your buying them to rear that shouldn't be an issue.

There is no law to enforce this but it has very serious consequences for the vendor if the rule is broken and ultimately the buck stops with the vendor.

Which is what I was getting at. In all honesty, how is either the Vendor, or his Milk buyer going to know what happens to the calf??

So from what you are saying, to protect themselves, the Vendor really needs to keep hold of the calf until it is 8 weeks?

Yes, I am playing Devils Advocate a bit here, as any calf we buy, is being brought to rear...

 

[steveR]

Do you not then feel it is perhaps the responsibility of the vendor to keep said calves until any time limits imposed by his/ her milk buyer has elapsed?

I suspect that should really be the case..... according to the Milk buyer??

 

[steveR]

Yes big problem for the calves but not the seller!
Don't think any calves should be slaughtered not even after at 8 wks but is a big problem and will take longer to change mindsets of buyers and producers

Maybe a change of cows/calves??? But not one for me to deal with, thankfully.

Or as a buyer said to me in a plaintive manner a few years back, "when will they bring back proper Friesans?" I think it was after a run of scrawny Holsteins, knocked down at a fiver each....

 

[steveR]

When does a dairy bull calf get classified as a beef animal according to red tractor? Would that require the dairy farm to have a beef audit as. well?

Alot of farms won't have the space, time, NVZ implications and no contract to turn a profit from it possibly.

Just leave it 90 days and all is good....?

 

[Fergieman]

Which is what I was getting at. In all honesty, how is either the Vendor, or his Milk buyer going to know what happens to the calf??

So from what you are saying, to protect themselves, the Vendor really needs to keep hold of the calf until it is 8 weeks?

Yes, I am playing Devils Advocate a bit here, as any calf we buy, is being brought to rear...

BCMS

 

[DairyGrazing]

Which breeds/cross breeds of calves are getting slaughtered?

 

[farmer on a bike]

Thought I would ask this here for a bit more clarification.

Herself has bought a few calves this week for the first time in ages, one to suckle on a cow who had a dead calf, and a few more for luck Popped to Shrewsbury and then bought them from Drayton...

What set me pondering was the low prices in Shrewsbury for some 2 month old calves flagged as Arla, fair enough, I know that they are not supposed to go for slaughter as calves, but I wondered what was the law on this?

Then on Wed at Drayton, Herself bought a nice bull calf with an Arla flag, and I was expected to sign a document about the subsequent life of the calf AFTER I paid. Now this is the first time this had happened and set me thinking, if I have just bought a calf in market, what legal right does the owner have to insist that I follow some rule imposed by his milk buyer? Dont ever recall the matter being raised in the conditions of sale....

I seem to recall buying calves with a Tesco sticker that mau have been the same, but no paperwork then...

It is up to you, if you want to bid on that calf. you should be doing that with the knowledge of the requirements associated with buying that calf. If you don't want that choose another calf to bid on. The market are doing this to try and maintain the ability to market these calves.

 

[farmer on a bike]

Was the calf announced from an Arla supplier before bidding started?
It does seem strange to tell someone what they can't do with their own property ( calf) after they've paid for it but please remember the vendor could lose their milk contract if slaughtered under 8 wks and they didn't make the rules either

Many people buy land with covenants on it, is this any different?

 

[farmer on a bike]

So say if Mr A buys a dozen arla farm calves at market signs said document but Mr A has a absolute hovel, shouldnt be allowed a rabbit let alone calves and majority die with a couple of weeks which wouldnt be unheard of, what happens in that instance?

If that is turned up in the checks, I hope it gets investigated and the farmer who bought the calves gets investigated for the poor calf welfare this would involve. I believe this is already being watched by BCMS and is passed to trading standards now.

 

[steveR]

BCMS

Point...

 

[farmer on a bike]

Do you not then feel it is perhaps the responsibility of the vendor to keep said calves until any time limits imposed by his/ her milk buyer has elapsed?

probably the gold standard but the markets want to offer alternatives that provide the seller with options that still meet the standard. One of our farms has a contract with Buitelaar to achieve this result.

 

[steveR]

Many people buy land with covenants on it, is this any different?

Legally?

From what has been suggested here, yes it is different.

 

[farmer on a bike]

Which is what I was getting at. In all honesty, how is either the Vendor, or his Milk buyer going to know what happens to the calf??

So from what you are saying, to protect themselves, the Vendor really needs to keep hold of the calf until it is 8 weeks?

Yes, I am playing Devils Advocate a bit here, as any calf we buy, is being brought to rear...

It can all be checked on BCMS quite easily.

 

[steveR]

It can all be checked on BCMS quite easily.

That'll keep the sellers happy, checking BCMS every week....

 

[Scholsey]

As much as I think red tractor has it’s flaws maybe only accredited farms should be able to buy calves, the fact that a labradoodle pup can cost £2000+ yet can buy 200 dairy bull calves for the same price?!?

 

[Sandpit Farm]

The answer here surely has to be collaboration. I can see there will be lots of dairy farms investing in calf accommodation to ensure they have capacity to rear all calves to 8 weeks. Those that don't want to invest should try to strike up relationships with locals who may consider rearing calves. To me, it is a good way to get youngsters into farming and to develop their own project.

The problem here could be scale. If your collaborator decides they want more calves than you can supply, they are going to get calves from elsewhere too.

This is a missed opportunity when it comes to TB. We know we are short of AFUs anyway and those that we have are generally for weaned calves and upwards. So that gap in capacity is calves up to 8 weeks old. If you can trust your collaborator and they can trust you and there is some level of margin in it for them, they could set up as an isolation unit to your farm allowing them to take calves from you regardless of TB status. The trust has to work both ways for this.

 

[Scholsey]

As much as I think red tractor has it’s flaws maybe only accredited farms should be able to buy calves, the fact that a labradoodle pup can cost £2000+ yet can buy 200 dairy bull calves for the same price?!?

Farmer banned from keeping livestock for 10 years

A FARMER has been banned from keeping livestock for 10 years for allowing animals to suffer and for failing to dispose of large amounts of carcases.

www.herefordtimes.com

this scheme has increased chances of this happening in my opinion and I think whole life red
Tractor or similar would stop cretins like this.

 

[Sid]

The issue is two fold as I see it.
1. Jersey cross bull calves.
2. Herds shut down with TB.


The first can be dealt with via sexed semen but may mean more cows miss the block requirements and mean more cull cows.
But it also means that heifers that used to be naturally served will now use artificial means including hormone treatments to sync them.

The second, having been shut down on and off , is a nightmare.
Finding a home for TB restricted calf can be a challenge when you in and out of restrictions. It's also a challenge for those looking for calves as well.