Rewilding

beardface

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire

Interesting article about a study done into how long it takes for self sown woodland to establish.

Perhaps the government would find it easier and more cost effective, to simply pay us an income forgone figure to leave our crap pieces of land untouched. In 50 years it could be diverse natural woodland, instead of commercial forestry tied up with the self serving interests of global companies.
 

Interesting article about a study done into how long it takes for self sown woodland to establish.

Perhaps the government would find it easier and more cost effective, to simply pay us an income forgone figure to leave our crap pieces of land untouched. In 50 years it could be diverse natural woodland, instead of commercial forestry tied up with the self serving interests of global companies.
I have areas that have been in setaside of one flavour or aniother for 25 years, it is a battle to keep the trees under control! :)
 

curlietailz

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Sedgefield
I have said it before
Pay farmers £600/acre/year to just leave land
No public access
No hedge trimming
No topping sprays or anything

would be easy to administer
Govt would get desired greening carbon capture self seeded tree growth
Farmers get a fair pay for income foregone

too simple for Gov though
 

beardface

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
East Yorkshire
I have said it before
Pay farmers £600/acre/year to just leave land
No public access
No hedge trimming
No topping sprays or anything

would be easy to administer
Govt would get desired greening carbon capture self seeded tree growth
Farmers get a fair pay for income foregone

too simple for Gov though

Trouble is they wouldn't need half as many clipboard warriors. Would be nice and easy though just map and submit your 'rewilded' areas.
 

Lazy Sod

Member
Location
Warminster
The process is also very slow compared to planting. They did make the point that it worked well because it was next old established woodland which provided much of the tree seeds. It wouldn't work so well in the open countryside.
 

egbert

Member

Interesting article about a study done into how long it takes for self sown woodland to establish.

Perhaps the government would find it easier and more cost effective, to simply pay us an income forgone figure to leave our crap pieces of land untouched. In 50 years it could be diverse natural woodland, instead of commercial forestry tied up with the self serving interests of global companies.
what's wrong with commercial forestry managed by the occupant?
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs

Interesting article about a study done into how long it takes for self sown woodland to establish.

Perhaps the government would find it easier and more cost effective, to simply pay us an income forgone figure to leave our crap pieces of land untouched. In 50 years it could be diverse natural woodland, instead of commercial forestry tied up with the self serving interests of global companies.
Very clever bird is the Jay. Has a very keen eye for planting oak trees in straight lines.
 

toquark

Member
I would wager that this result is purely down to the adjacency factor, there was likely a decent seedbank in the soil prior to abandonment. I don't care what they say about thickets, deer numbers today would preclude that level of regeneration in most places. I know that in our neck of the woods, it would either regenerate with sitka spruce from the neighbouring 50,000 acre plantation or just go rank and do nothing.
 

egbert

Member
Nothing. More people should do it. Depending on the occupant's age, it will provide either a decent tax free pension supplement or an IHT & CGT tax free asset to pass on.
I got my accountant to look into the tax thing a time or two - being both grower and sawyer, the possibilities tinkled my fiscal fancy somewhat.
But it seemed we'd have to run a separate set of books for the forestry business permanently, which turned me right off.

(mind, a lot of customers want to deal with folding stuff......that's a whole lot of opportunity)

As for the concept of farmers being timber growers, it baffles me - given the current urban fetish for it- that colleges aren't pushed to include basic silviculture in all agri courses.
It's a no brainer to me.
 

toquark

Member
I got my accountant to look into the tax thing a time or two - being both grower and sawyer, the possibilities tinkled my fiscal fancy somewhat.
But it seemed we'd have to run a separate set of books for the forestry business permanently, which turned me right off.

(mind, a lot of customers want to deal with folding stuff......that's a whole lot of opportunity)

As for the concept of farmers being timber growers, it baffles me - given the current urban fetish for it- that colleges aren't pushed to include basic silviculture in all agri courses.
It's a no brainer to me.
Traditionally when most land was tied up in large estates, the forestry was practiced in house and the timber belonged to the owner, not the tenant farmer. Consequently the link between farming and forests was broken. It’s not on the continent and elsewhere where they have a different history of land management and ownership.

In today’s world I absolutely believe that ag students should be taught basic woodland management and economics. For many larger hill farms, an element of owned forestry would be massively beneficial. Instead many farmers seem to just decide to “sell a bit off for trees” when, if they looked into it they would discover they can plant it themselves for free and bank an annual return of around 10%, not to mention double their land value. All tax free.
 

Formatted

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
SE
I live pretty close to Knepp and have been around a few times. They've got one area which has had pigs on it, and another hasn't. The pig area is full of scrub and trees, which are all self sown, the pigs turn over the soil and they sprout. The other area, which is managed exactly the same, minus the pigs is just overgrown grassland.

Rewilding needs pigs!
 

Exfarmer

Member
Location
Bury St Edmunds
Traditionally when most land was tied up in large estates, the forestry was practiced in house and the timber belonged to the owner, not the tenant farmer. Consequently the link between farming and forests was broken. It’s not on the continent and elsewhere where they have a different history of land management and ownership.

In today’s world I absolutely believe that ag students should be taught basic woodland management and economics. For many larger hill farms, an element of owned forestry would be massively beneficial. Instead many farmers seem to just decide to “sell a bit off for trees” when, if they looked into it they would discover they can plant it themselves for free and bank an annual return of around 10%, not to mention double their land value. All tax free.
I do not want to disagree with you , but for the last 100 years , the one sure thing you sid when planting trees, was to instantly devalue the land value by half. Admittedly things have changed a littlre but I do not believe that you can convert arable land at say £8 k an acre to forestry at £16k by simply planting a 1,00 saplings at 20p each
 

renewablejohn

Member
Location
lancs
How will the landowner make money from his asset if it is rewilded.
Let it catch fire every five years then ask for donations to replace all the trees lost due to the fire. Then have an army of voluntary workers (mugs) to replant the trees. From the profit of the donations buy more land and plant more trees and repeat the cycle every 5 years or every hot summer when you can guarantee a good burn.
 
Location
Devon
Perhaps the government would find it easier and more cost effective, to simply pay us an income forgone figure to leave our crap pieces of land untouched. In 50 years it could be diverse natural woodland, instead of commercial forestry tied up with the self serving interests of global companies.

And therein lies the answer.

Government policy isn't driven by a wish to achieve but the wish to give money to the people they want and pretend it will achieve something.

This government has made it abundantly clear they want to give money to everyone they can except farmers.
 

toquark

Member
I do not want to disagree with you , but for the last 100 years , the one sure thing you sid when planting trees, was to instantly devalue the land value by half. Admittedly things have changed a littlre but I do not believe that you can convert arable land at say £8 k an acre to forestry at £16k by simply planting a 1,00 saplings at 20p each
That’s always been the problem in the South which is why nobody’s planted trees for decades, but I wasn’t talking about arable land, which in my view really shouldn’t be planted at all. Up here plantable hill land is currently worth (rather unbelievably) c.4K per acre, it will be worth £8k under trees.

To be fair the economics of hill land is completely bonkers due to the current subsidy system (mainly driven by planting targets) but that’s another discussion altogether.
 

Sid

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
South Molton
Have someone locally rewilding a farm.
24 scrapes and ponds in 14 acres to mow around.
25 acres of beaver enclosure with ponds and trees, wants that mown.
12 acre field with 14 natural sown oaks mown around.
12 acres of green hay seeded pasture , was done when wet and big ruts everywhere but that's ok because it needs doing.
Of course large margins left no straight lines and no heavy equipment.

They won't like the bill but it will take 3 times as long to mow as normal fields!
 

curlietailz

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Sedgefield
Have someone locally rewilding a farm.
24 scrapes and ponds in 14 acres to mow around.
25 acres of beaver enclosure with ponds and trees, wants that mown.
12 acre field with 14 natural sown oaks mown around.
12 acres of green hay seeded pasture , was done when wet and big ruts everywhere but that's ok because it needs doing.
Of course large margins left no straight lines and no heavy equipment.

They won't like the bill but it will take 3 times as long to mow as normal fields!

surely if it’s been rewilded then it shouldn’t be mown ?


( not having a go at you Sid... just a little rant)
I detest incorrect in-vogue words being used liberally such as calling themselves Vegan but wearing a leather belt or having a car with leather seats or eating the occasional chicken nugget
Or Rewilding.....
surely the definition of rewild it to Re-Wild ie to let it all go wild

no human interference.... that means no public access, no topping, no hedge trimming etc

if there is human interference then it becomes managed landscape

grrrrrrrrrr
 

Update on the Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot

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Update on the Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot

Written by Lisa Applin

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In July, we opened the applications window for farmers to join our Sustainable Farming Incentive pilot.

The Sustainable Farming Incentive is 1 of the 3 new environmental land management schemes. It sits alongside the future Local Nature Recovery and Landscape Recovery schemes.

Through the Sustainable Farming Incentive, farmers will be paid for environmentally sustainable actions – ones that are simple to do and do not require previous agri-environment scheme experience.

We are piloting the scheme to...
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