Riverbank

[Boysground]

I suspect I may have a small issue brewing with an area I own. The land is bordered by a river which is owned by a fishing club, I have the land registry map and the property register which states that I do NOT own the riverbed. This has always been my understanding, the question is where does the riverbed stop and my land start. Is there a precedent that says a riverbed includes some bank.

I guess its a very muddy area and no clear answer, just thought I would ask here before I have to spend some money. Dealing with people who think that fishing is the only thing that matters and they own my land!

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[puppet]

Not clear what the issue is but looks like you want shot of them. I would assume that they will have rights of access along the bank - but not to drive vehicles across your field perhaps. Have you spoken to their chairman? Maybe have to discuss a locked gate with only pedestrian access.

 

[chipchap]

Most fishermen are complete gentlemen in my experience.
Fishing syndicates are full of professionals and retirees who only want a relaxing day in the countryside.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

I didn't know it was possible to own a river. Are they a large Angling Association or some sort o fly syndicate?

I assume the "fishing club" own/lease the sporting rights relating to the water?

These rights often include access to the water, which is usually pedestrian only.

 

[Derryn]

I suspect I may have a small issue brewing with an area I own. The land is bordered by a river which is owned by a fishing club, I have the land registry map and the property register which states that I do NOT own the riverbed. This has always been my understanding, the question is where does the riverbed stop and my land start. Is there a precedent that says a riverbed includes some bank.

I guess its a very muddy area and no clear answer, just thought I would ask here before I have to spend some money. Dealing with people who think that fishing is the only thing that matters and they own my land!

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The map should show where your demise ends, but having said there you do get errors on plans, particularly if they're old. I'm assuming that you don't own the other bank, and neither do the fishing people? Do they actually own the freehold of the riverbed or do they just have a lease or fishing licence?

 

[Boysground]

My map was done in 2000 so relatively up to date, I think the fishermen have the freehold of the river, I don’t own the other side but I know there have been issues. The map clearly shows my boundary as the river bank but the line is probably 6 feet wide as it’s drawn. I just want to be sure of things before I start getting grumpy.

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[Derryn]

So they don't own either bank? Interesting. I wonder how they thought they were going to access it? Is it bank-based fishing or the sort where they stand in the middle (sorry I don't know the correct terms)? Was the plan existing from a previous owner or did you have it drawn up? Does the title say "to the river bank" or dies it just refer to the plan?

 

[Boysground]

It’s fancy fly fishing so stood in the middle, I think they probably expect to have some bank but I don’t know how much. A fence has appeared well into my grass, they want to stop walkers along the river, I want the fence moved.

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[Derryn]

Ah, well they can't just erect a fence unless they can prove that they own the land. Is there a footpath there?

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

If they own the fishing rights outright, there may be some small print about a right of access being included, which may be at very specific point/gate/stile.

Is there a public right of way or permissive path for the walkers?

 

[betweenthelines]

They can't put a fence on land they don't own. I'd also be asking questions about how they got access to put it up-presumably a vehicle was used?

Personally, I wouldn't wait for them to remove then fence. I'd take it down and leave it on their property (ie in the river)

 

[Dry Rot]

They can't put a fence on land they don't own. I'd also be asking questions about how they got access to put it up-presumably a vehicle was used?

Personally, I wouldn't wait for them to remove then fence. I'd take it down and leave it on their property (ie in the river)

The fence line does not necessarily indicate a boundary as in the real world, fences sometimes can't go according to a plan, but if it does differ, it ought to be erected by agreement. Just unilaterally removing it is a bit harsh. I agree with chipchap above (post 3). Assume they are gentlemen until you learn different. I'd also want to read the entire agreement and probably have a chat with a solicitor over the phone. Rivers can move, plans can be wrong or misread, even fencing contractors have been known to misunderstand directions.

 

[Fish]

As someone involved in both a fishing syndicate and a farmer, I would be very careful here as it could be a compleat minefield, you need to find out what the syndicate actual own. They may own 2m/ 4m of the bank or may only have right of access for fishing.
I'm guessing this is chalk stream dry fly trout fishing.

 

[ploughman1963]

The fence line does not necessarily indicate a boundary as in the real world, fences sometimes can't go according to a plan, but if it does differ, it ought to be erected by agreement. Just unilaterally removing it is a bit harsh. I agree with chipchap above (post 3). Assume they are gentlemen until you learn different. I'd also want to read the entire agreement and probably have a chat with a solicitor over the phone. Rivers can move, plans can be wrong or misread, even fencing contractors have been known to misunderstand directions.

As a fencing contractor I take great offence (or a fence ) at that comment

 

[MRT]

As a fencing contractor I take great offence (or a fence ) at that comment

As a contractor you can make a fence from anything

 

[br jones]

The fishermen own the right to fish that stretch ,they own no land id bet

 

[Pigken]

I have about 250 metres of river side land, I do not own the fishing rights. Think private individual owns and local fishing club rent fishing rights. I own up to river but fishing rights allow 2 metres for access. Only seen one person in last 12 years.

 

[betweenthelines]

The fence line does not necessarily indicate a boundary as in the real world, fences sometimes can't go according to a plan, but if it does differ, it ought to be erected by agreement. Just unilaterally removing it is a bit harsh. I agree with chipchap above (post 3). Assume they are gentlemen until you learn different. I'd also want to read the entire agreement and probably have a chat with a solicitor over the phone. Rivers can move, plans can be wrong or misread, even fencing contractors have been known to misunderstand directions.

Was the erection of the fence not "a bit harsh"? It certainly was neither by agreement or gentlemanly!

 

[Boysground]

Thanks for all the comments, I have done some more detective work today and am making progress. The whole thing is a potential minefield that I don’t want to get involved in. To answer some of the points you have all made.
The whole area is is owned by 4 different parties which just adds confusion. The river keeper didn’t know I owned the parcel in question.
The footpaths are all over the place. The definitive map is possibly a century out of date and in this area most don’t know the exact routes. I am possibly the only one that does.
It’s not helped by lockdown increasing footpath traffic.
Non of this has been helped by a very badly written email from the fishermen. If they had only said they were trying to protect the bank as excessive walking close to the edge is causing it to collapse and could people walk the correct route, some may not have got their backs up.
As ever I’m stuck in the middle trying to stop a mini war and not fall out with anyone. I need to keep everyone happy. I’ve bigger fish to fry elsewhere.
well at least until I get a planning application through

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[Bury the Trash]

@Baldrick will remember this i expect