Robert Forster: Wide adoption of contract rearing processor owned beef cattle moves closer.

[Hilly]

As I said earlier the unions need to earn their corn and make sure the contract is worth entering. If in doubt don't do it.


My grandfather did a lot right on a little grey Fergie - you moved on to your fastrac. Things move one.
Yes what he taught about stockmanship and caring for the land is invaluable but shouldn't we build on their foundation and go forward?

Of course you should, but relinquishing any tiny bit of power the little man has over the super market is not forward its backward.

 

[The Beef]

if he is in the top

A man buy cattle for the first time today on over draft or loan in 30 years time might be working on his own money, when he retires he will have a substantial asset to cash in, the contract finisher will have bugger all.

QMS figures would suggest he has a 1 in 3 chance

 

[The Beef]

Of course you should, but relinquishing any tiny bit of power the little man has over the super market is not forward its backward.

So just how much power have you got over the supermarkets then? Probably no more than the rest of us

 

[Hilly]

if he is in the top

QMS figures would suggest he has a 1 in 3 chance

Nothing wrong with that ggod odds id say, plenty in other industry`s going pop or not even getting a start.

 

[Hilly]

So just how much power have you got over the supermarkets then? Probably no more than the rest of us

Well more than i would have if they owned all my cattle, im totally independent from them enough for me, because i get up in the morning and do what i want not what they want.

 

[Henarar]

A man buy cattle for the first time today on over draft or loan in 30 years time might be working on his own money, when he retires he will have a substantial asset to cash in, the contract finisher will have bugger all.

not necessarily it all comes down to one thing price, if the contract man is getting a good price all his life and saves his money he could well end up with more that the chap that has to sell he herd to pay his debt because he wasn't making any money

as I keep saying let them put in a price for next years cattle, you wouldn't sell them all like that just the same as the corn boys don't sell all their corn

 

[Hilly]

not necessarily it all comes down to one thing price, if the contract man is getting a good price all his life and saves his money he could well end up with more that the chap that has to sell he herd to pay his debt because he wasn't making any money

as I keep saying let them put in a price for next years cattle, you wouldn't sell them all like that just the same as the corn boys don't sell all their corn

But if its widely adapted the critical mass at live marts will go, their wont be anyone else to sell too, no where to go, you couldnt grow malting barley without a contract and feed barley would hardly pay, unless you have your own cattle!

 

[matthew]

well if you are relying on them then this conversation is over

@The Beef said "As I said earlier the unions need to earn their corn and make sure the contract is worth entering. If in doubt don't do it."

Porcine aviation.

As an example, the union and its minions set up a Wildlife management agreement with NE.
It had conditions and was a legal and binding contract, paid for by the farmer signatories up front.

Last year Defra tacked on two additions to cattle farmers within the areas concerned.

As far as I'm concerned the union is a part of Government. And I wouldn't trust them to stand by a contract with anyone. Not even one they were instrumental in drawing up.

 

[The Beef]

You said something about doing what grandafther did, what i meant was if grandfather did something and your still here in business he must have done something right or you d be gone long ago.It was not meant as an insult more a complement that you have survived this long , it aint easy for anyone trying to derive a full time living from farming.

I didn't inherit my grandfathers business either did you inherit?

 

[Hilly]

I didn't inherit my grandfathers business either did you inherit?

No, my grandfather was miner , he worked for huge private company and had fuk all, ring any bells ?

 

[The Beef]

No, my grandfather was miner , he worked for huge private company and had fuk all, ring any bells ?

At least I asked before throwing in assertions

 

[The Beef]

Porcine aviation.

As an example, the union and its minions set up a Wildlife management agreement with NE.
It had conditions and was a legal and binding contract, paid for by the farmer signatories up front.

Last year Defra tacked on two additions to cattle farmers within the areas concerned.

As far as I'm concerned the union is a part of Government. And I wouldn't trust them to stand by a contract with anyone. Not even one they were instrumental in drawing up.[/QUOTE]

well if you are relying on them then this conversation is over

I think this warrants a thread all of its own!

 

[Henarar]

Porcine aviation.

As an example, the union and its minions set up a Wildlife management agreement with NE.
It had conditions and was a legal and binding contract, paid for by the farmer signatories up front.

Last year Defra tacked on two additions to cattle farmers within the areas concerned.

As far as I'm concerned the union is a part of Government. And I wouldn't trust them to stand by a contract with anyone. Not even one they were instrumental in drawing up.

I think this warrants a thread all of its own! [/QUOTE]
are you new here or something ? there has been loads
most of them involving young @gone up the hill and @Guy Smith and @Clive covering all sorts of NFU related topics with various degrees of mud slinging

we could do with a new one so of you go and start one

we may even get some defensive posts from @An Gof and @Sid if we are really lucky not

 

[The Beef]

I think this warrants a thread all of its own!

are you new here or something ? there has been loads
most of them involving young @gone up the hill and @Guy Smith and @Clive covering all sorts of NFU related topics with various degrees of mud slinging

we could do with a new one so of you go and start one

we may even get some defensive posts from @An Gof and @Sid if we are really lucky not [/QUOTE]


Actually I am new - doesn't it show!

 

[milkloss]

Porcine aviation.

As an example, the union and its minions set up a Wildlife management agreement with NE.
It had conditions and was a legal and binding contract, paid for by the farmer signatories up front.

Last year Defra tacked on two additions to cattle farmers within the areas concerned.

As far as I'm concerned the union is a part of Government. And I wouldn't trust them to stand by a contract with anyone. Not even one they were instrumental in drawing up.

I think this warrants a thread all of its own! [/QUOTE]

This is what I said earlier in the thread :
—————
why farmers roll over and take statements from commentators of the industry as gospel. What happened to the fight? What happened to rising up and taking our own industry by the balls? Why are you suggesting farmers put themselves in a corner and get walked over by industries far larger than themselves? We know we are probably weaker than we ever have been, there are no organisations I would trust to be involved in developing a cop contract: too many ‘bend over and take it’ or snouts in the trough around to fight for a decent deal.

I would like to see pundits actually standing in our corner for a change rather than just making observations and rolling with the momentum created by bigger business and governments. We are the prime producer, we do the hardest job, we are open to manipulation from all sides and have the most to lose. It’s about time our opinion was heard and listened to.
———————

Farmers as a group are ridiculously weak and under represented at the moment. We need somehow to change attitudes rather than try and ‘steer’ corporate and government momentum. They always get what they want by chucking us a few crumbs, I think slaughter tags in sheep was one example. Stupid, stupid, stupid.

 

[Hilly]

At least I asked before throwing in assertions

I didnt throw any assertions, ive explained what i meat.

 

[Henarar]

Actually I am new - doesn't it show!

Not really and I welcme the debate but with the tails of tactics used by supermarkets that we have all heard I fail to see that this is going to be good but I do get your points

 

[Hilly]

I think this warrants a thread all of its own!

This is what I said earlier in the thread :
—————
why farmers roll over and take statements from commentators of the industry as gospel. What happened to the fight? What happened to rising up and taking our own industry by the balls? Why are you suggesting farmers put themselves in a corner and get walked over by industries far larger than themselves? We know we are probably weaker than we ever have been, there are no organisations I would trust to be involved in developing a cop contract: too many ‘bend over and take it’ or snouts in the trough around to fight for a decent deal.

I would like to see pundits actually standing in our corner for a change rather than just making observations and rolling with the momentum created by bigger business and governments. We are the prime producer, we do the hardest job, we are open to manipulation from all sides and have the most to lose. It’s about time our opinion was heard and listened to.
———————

Farmers as a group are ridiculously weak and under represented at the moment. We need somehow to change attitudes rather than try and ‘steer’ corporate and government momentum. They always get what they want by chucking us a few crumbs, I think slaughter tags in sheep was one example. Stupid, stupid, stupid.[/QUOTE]
Correct, well said, we should not be rolling over and just because some journo that funnily enough can change his mind now anad agin says so quite frankly means nothing.

Earlier on in the thread you told me I wouldn't be where I am if my grandfather had put me here. I asked you to give your reasoning but you didn't.
Now you come out with this - what's up do you feel so threatened by thoughtful debate that you have to start throwing insults?

FYI in England where I farm historic SPS has been replaced by area payments. This and due to several reasons within that has led to my SPS being reduced by 80%. The provincial governments have helped their farmers with capital grants that have not been available in England. Plus in Scotland your leaders have made a damn good job of working toward eradicating BVD for example. The fact that I am still here earning a living that would see me in the top 1/3 QMS figures says quite the opposite to your assertions. Indeed I have only got there by making big decisions and thinking bloody hard and then doing the job as well as I can.
If you want to go down the route of throwing insults then you get on and do it - insults thrown by those with not enough intellect to get anywhere near the mark can go on the muckhill where they belong. Please come up with something a little more accurate backed by sound reasoning or at least make them funny.

If it makes you feel any better your not alone on that score.

 

[Hilly]

Earlier on in the thread you told me I wouldn't be where I am if my grandfather had put me here. I asked you to give your reasoning but you didn't.
Now you come out with this - what's up do you feel so threatened by thoughtful debate that you have to start throwing insults?

FYI in England where I farm historic SPS has been replaced by area payments. This and due to several reasons within that has led to my SPS being reduced by 80%. The provincial governments have helped their farmers with capital grants that have not been available in England. Plus in Scotland your leaders have made a damn good job of working toward eradicating BVD for example. The fact that I am still here earning a living that would see me in the top 1/3 QMS figures says quite the opposite to your assertions. Indeed I have only got there by making big decisions and thinking bloody hard and then doing the job as well as I can.
If you want to go down the route of throwing insults then you get on and do it - insults thrown by those with not enough intellect to get anywhere near the mark can go on the muckhill where they belong. Please come up with something a little more accurate backed by sound reasoning or at least make them funny.

Historically i had a decent payment for a one man band because i turned a sh!t farm into a half decent one with investing profit`s and hard work building stock numbers etc etc etc , historic was ok but changed to area and because some bod in an office decided 99% of my acres are sh!t land i get 20 something rather than 120 something (like 99% of my competition), but i aint bitter im bloody pleased i still make a go of it regardless.

 

[Sid]

I think this warrants a thread all of its own!

are you new here or something ? there has been loads
most of them involving young @gone up the hill and @Guy Smith and @Clive covering all sorts of NFU related topics with various degrees of mud slinging

we could do with a new one so of you go and start one

we may even get some defensive posts from @An Gof and @Sid if we are really lucky not [/QUOTE]

Not defensive but factual posts.
Always better to answer than to sit back and let the bulls**t run free