Robotic milking

[upnortheast]

If you got a Collinson starter box then you should be able to wire in your existing Motor & proximity sensor. --- I think !

This one -

Collinson Ecommerce. Control Panels - 1 Conveyor - Selectable - 10 minutes

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estore.collinson.co.uk

 

[Magners]

What are the motivation of change this new robot? Thanks

I believe it is a large change in their business and they have decided to increase the cow numbers and install a Rotary.

 

[Magners]

It is time to stop thinking about the NUMBER OF COWS on a robot, and start thinking about the maximum ammount of litres with the LEAST COWS !!!!!

A robot is a Milk Harvester !!

It is at it's best when delivering the maximum ammount of litres per minute/hour/day/week/month/year.

Every time a cow ends milking and leaves, and the next one enters, is ID'd, cleaned and connected is DOWNTIME, and lost production.

The objective is to maximize UPTIME, so high yielding, fast milking, clean cows, that have good well presented teats and udders is the NUMBER ONE PRIORITY.

The next priority is to ensure you have good reliable robots, with service support that is second to none.

Once the robot performance is maximized (15% free time Max), the next objective is to improve cows until the performance is improved further with LESS COWS !!!!!!!!

More Cows = More Cost !!!

I'm going to agree to disagree with this one. It all comes down to what do you what to achieve, If you have just spent a lot of money on a green field site, than you do need as much milk as possible from your robot. for that I agree with you. as you know, I used to work for DeLaval, I have been on farms where their VMS were producing 3000 plus litres per a day, Fantastic. But the stress, you could feel it in the air. agree if this is what you want, fine and yes I agree you have to have fantastic backup service because if that robot goes wrong for more than an hour it will take 2 to 3 days for everything to settle back down.
Whereas I have 2 VMS and 97 cows on a grazing system, even block calving, averaging about 1300 litres per a VMS per a day. These VMS were second-hand and the both of them probably cost me half the price of one new robot. So I suppose what I am saying here is, the important thing with a robot or any system is to get back off them what you have paid for them. the more you spend the more you litres you need per a robot per a day. I used to say if you buy a new robot you needed 1800 litres per a robot per a day to pay for it ? what do you other users think ? The last thing I will say, when people ask me how many cows per a robot, I now say as few as possible if you want an easy life.

 

[Sid]

I'm going to agree to disagree with this one. It all comes down to what do you what to achieve, If you have just spent a lot of money on a green field site, than you do need as much milk as possible from your robot. for that I agree with you. as you know, I used to work for DeLaval, I have been on farms where their VMS were producing 3000 plus litres per a day, Fantastic. But the stress, you could feel it in the air. agree if this is what you want, fine and yes I agree you have to have fantastic backup service because if that robot goes wrong for more than an hour it will take 2 to 3 days for everything to settle back down.
Whereas I have 2 VMS and 97 cows on a grazing system, even block calving, averaging about 1300 litres per a VMS per a day. These VMS were second-hand and the both of them probably cost me half the price of one new robot. So I suppose what I am saying here is, the important thing with a robot or any system is to get back off them what you have paid for them. the more you spend the more you litres you need per a robot per a day. I used to say if you buy a new robot you needed 1800 litres per a robot per a day to pay for it ? what do you other users think ? The last thing I will say, when people ask me how many cows per a robot, I now say as few as possible if you want an easy life.

Easy life that's me ?

 

[DickDastardly]

We are currently in the process of designing a robotic set up on a greenfield site. Initially looking to milk 60 head and push up to 100 the following year. A few concerns that i have...... our herd will be block calved in the spring and predominantly grazed. We have opted to buy 2 used robots with grazeway equipment, main driver of buying two robots is the fact that we are a good couple of hours from the nearest dealer and if we should be caught out with a breakdown that cant be rectified over the phone then at least we have a back up unit in reserve that can take one for the team and carry on going, this and the fact that we can buy two used robots for less than the cost of a new one and will be be pushing fewer cows through each unit. The million dollar question is Robots and block calving, presumably the bot would need to be powered all year round and from what i have interpreted its not as simple as pulling the lead out the back in november and plugging it back in feb. Youtube is full of positive testimonials but for some reason manufacturers dont upload negative vids with all the problems you are likely to encounter. some info on bots and block calving systems would be highly appreciated. I dont want to overlook anything that might cause problems when up and running so i would encourage all feedback really, especially from grazing folk. thanks

 

[Magners]

We are currently in the process of designing a robotic set up on a greenfield site. Initially looking to milk 60 head and push up to 100 the following year. A few concerns that i have...... our herd will be block calved in the spring and predominantly grazed. We have opted to buy 2 used robots with grazeway equipment, main driver of buying two robots is the fact that we are a good couple of hours from the nearest dealer and if we should be caught out with a breakdown that cant be rectified over the phone then at least we have a back up unit in reserve that can take one for the team and carry on going, this and the fact that we can buy two used robots for less than the cost of a new one and will be be pushing fewer cows through each unit. The million dollar question is Robots and block calving, presumably the bot would need to be powered all year round and from what i have interpreted its not as simple as pulling the lead out the back in november and plugging it back in feb. Youtube is full of positive testimonials but for some reason manufacturers dont upload negative vids with all the problems you are likely to encounter. some info on bots and block calving systems would be highly appreciated. I dont want to overlook anything that might cause problems when up and running so i would encourage all feedback really, especially from grazing folk. thanks

Hi DickDastardly89,
First of all good luck with your new venture.
As for will it work, The answer is simply,yes, I am doing this, But on an autumn calving system, they are a few complications than you may have, but as long as you understand these problems it will be fine,
I will make a list of problems which you may have and try to briefly answer them.

1. Block calving you won't be able to have as many cows per a robot. - 55 I would say was max but it would depend on your yield and you expectations, as in how many times a day do you want them to be milked and how far from the robots are they walking ? You have this covered as you have gone for 2 robots, ideal, best thing you can do.
2. 1 of the big ones could be Bactoscans. why ? because you can have long periods of no cows being milked if you have 2 robots and lots of spare capacity ? this could mean that the milk lines are holding milk for 30 minutes plus between cows.? then that is where we will get a lot of debate going. how long do you leave it between cows before you wash the milk lines out ? I have our 2 VMS set at 1 hour 15 minutes. then it will do a no. 4 wash which is a main Alkaline wash. Our robots are set up to do a Main hot Alkaline wash at 6 am and 10pm and an acid main hot wash at 2 pm or when the tanker driver comes. I have also set that if the VMS does a main wash because there has been no cows milked. it then will miss and scheduled main wash if it due within 3 hours. I hear you ask, why does all this matter and is it important? It's a balancing act. It you leave it too long between cows the milk which is sitting in the 25 mm milk lines will go off which will increase your bactoscans. If you wash them too often there is more cost and a chance of getting more water in the milk, especially if you are block calving and not much milk in the tank so the ratio goes up. I am currently having 2 periods of the day when cows aren't using the robots for about 3 hours. but they are going to start going dry soon so i'm not worrying about it, theyre only getting 0.2kg of cake a day ! and they are still averaging 2.4 milking per a day. our bactoscans are between 8 and 37 in the last 2 months. I will attached them to this post. the few high ones where from me not putting acid on the bulk tank and then I had a cow with a bit of mastitis, rather than treat her (we're antibiotic free) I just kept it out for the calf, but every now and then I try to put it in the tank, Bang 30+ bacto ! so shes on the hit list now.
3. how to cool your milk. ? why is this important, because if you don't cool it fast enough when you have a small amount of milk coming into the tank over a long period , again you will have high Bactoscans. I am just using a plate cooler with borehole water and the DeLaval FCC (Flow controlled cooling) on the tank. I'm getting away with it, but a better system would be 2 stage cooling before it goes in the tank, either ice water cooling or a glycol cooler.
4. not enough cows on the system - this is kind of covered in the above, But I have toyed with the idea of putting a time switch on the entry gate to one of the VMS (use the time switch to turn the power off to the air valve which opens the gate.) this way you can set it to open at the busy times of the day 6 to 9 ? 2 ends of the day.and close it done just before its due a hot wash so then it stays clean until the door opens again later.
5. I would recommend ABC grazing, - you'll get more visits to the VMS, better cow traffic and you will have less problems like I'm having of long periods of the day when the VMS aren't used. 3 paddocks is a lot easier to manage. the cows just keep moving.

I think that will do for now, I hope this helps and it will get the discussions going .

 

[thesilentone]

Hi DickDastardly89,
First of all good luck with your new venture.
As for will it work, The answer is simply,yes, I am doing this, But on an autumn calving system, they are a few complications than you may have, but as long as you understand these problems it will be fine,
I will make a list of problems which you may have and try to briefly answer them.

1. Block calving you won't be able to have as many cows per a robot. - 55 I would say was max but it would depend on your yield and you expectations, as in how many times a day do you want them to be milked and how far from the robots are they walking ? You have this covered as you have gone for 2 robots, ideal, best thing you can do.
2. 1 of the big ones could be Bactoscans. why ? because you can have long periods of no cows being milked if you have 2 robots and lots of spare capacity ? this could mean that the milk lines are holding milk for 30 minutes plus between cows.? then that is where we will get a lot of debate going. how long do you leave it between cows before you wash the milk lines out ? I have our 2 VMS set at 1 hour 15 minutes. then it will do a no. 4 wash which is a main Alkaline wash. Our robots are set up to do a Main hot Alkaline wash at 6 am and 10pm and an acid main hot wash at 2 pm or when the tanker driver comes. I have also set that if the VMS does a main wash because there has been no cows milked. it then will miss and scheduled main wash if it due within 3 hours. I hear you ask, why does all this matter and is it important? It's a balancing act. It you leave it too long between cows the milk which is sitting in the 25 mm milk lines will go off which will increase your bactoscans. If you wash them too often there is more cost and a chance of getting more water in the milk, especially if you are block calving and not much milk in the tank so the ratio goes up. I am currently having 2 periods of the day when cows aren't using the robots for about 3 hours. but they are going to start going dry soon so i'm not worrying about it, theyre only getting 0.2kg of cake a day ! and they are still averaging 2.4 milking per a day. our bactoscans are between 8 and 37 in the last 2 months. I will attached them to this post. the few high ones where from me not putting acid on the bulk tank and then I had a cow with a bit of mastitis, rather than treat her (we're antibiotic free) I just kept it out for the calf, but every now and then I try to put it in the tank, Bang 30+ bacto ! so shes on the hit list now.
3. how to cool your milk. ? why is this important, because if you don't cool it fast enough when you have a small amount of milk coming into the tank over a long period , again you will have high Bactoscans. I am just using a plate cooler with borehole water and the DeLaval FCC (Flow controlled cooling) on the tank. I'm getting away with it, but a better system would be 2 stage cooling before it goes in the tank, either ice water cooling or a glycol cooler.
4. not enough cows on the system - this is kind of covered in the above, But I have toyed with the idea of putting a time switch on the entry gate to one of the VMS (use the time switch to turn the power off to the air valve which opens the gate.) this way you can set it to open at the busy times of the day 6 to 9 ? 2 ends of the day.and close it done just before its due a hot wash so then it stays clean until the door opens again later.
5. I would recommend ABC grazing, - you'll get more visits to the VMS, better cow traffic and you will have less problems like I'm having of long periods of the day when the VMS aren't used. 3 paddocks is a lot easier to manage. the cows just keep moving.

I think that will do for now, I hope this helps and it will get the discussions going .

Some good points, do you have the Glycol cooler beside the robots, and the other in the tank room ?

Are you having any problems with the water from the borehole ?

 

[Sid]

I would recommend ABC grazing, - you'll get more visits to the VMS, better cow traffic and you will have less problems like I'm having of long periods of the day when the VMS aren't used. 3 paddocks is a lot easier to manage. the cows just keep moving.

For us this is key to grass utilisation and number of milkings

 

[Magners]

Some good points, do you have the Glycol cooler beside the robots, and the other in the tank room ?

Are you having any problems with the water from the borehole ?

Hi Thesilentone,
No we have just the plate cooler in the dairy beside the tank an then DX on the tank. I was going to fit an ice bank but it was working so I didn't bother.

 

[Slowcow]

@Magners

When you say the milk sits in the 25mm pipes, do you mean the ones between the rubber milk lines and the milk meters? Has anyone tried putting these in a cooling jacket?

I'm setting up a pair of fairly old VMS at the moment. I visited quite a few VMS setups beforehand and some were struggling with bacto, trying to cool on the robot might make sense?

Be interested to hear yours thoughts, sounds like you know what's going on

 

[Spear]

I think he means the milk lines to the bulk tank.
And block calving on robots to my mind will mean keeping all fresh calving cows together in a separate group or the robots will never cope with all the cleaning after diverts.

I calve all year round and can only sensibly put 55 cows max through each robot with no grazing, but do have high yields.

Also found when I had less than 40-45 cows/robot that cow flow and milking/day fell.

 

[Magners]

@Magners

When you say the milk sits in the 25mm pipes, do you mean the ones between the rubber milk lines and the milk meters? Has anyone tried putting these in a cooling jacket?

I'm setting up a pair of fairly old VMS at the moment. I visited quite a few VMS setups beforehand and some were struggling with bacto, trying to cool on the robot might make sense?

Be interested to hear yours thoughts, sounds like you know what's going on

Like spear says, the milk lines to the tanks, these stay full all the time unless the vms go into a wash, that way air doesn't get to milk or dry the milk to the side of the pipe. I know a farmer in Lancashire put these pipes inside another pipe and had water running through them, not sure it or improved things. As for the pioes on the robot, I wouldn't bother. Wouldn't have thought it would make much difference. There is 1 question I'd ask everyone on here. Should the plate cooler be at the robot or in the dairy? I know Fullwood used to put it at the robot, Delaval used to say this is wrong, they said that once you start to cool the milk it needs to be cooled to 4 degrees ASAP, until then you're better to keep it at cow temperature? Obviously if you have the plate cooler at the robot end you have to have the milk filter at that end as well, I'm not sure what lely do.? I know they used to have the filters on the robots, but the most resent ones I've seen are in the dairy alone with the tube cooler.

 

[Slowcow]

Like spear says, the milk lines to the tanks, these stay full all the time unless the vms go into a wash, that way air doesn't get to milk or dry the milk to the side of the pipe. I know a farmer in Lancashire put these pipes inside another pipe and had water running through them, not sure it or improved things. As for the pioes on the robot, I wouldn't bother. Wouldn't have thought it would make much difference. There is 1 question I'd ask everyone on here. Should the plate cooler be at the robot or in the dairy? I know Fullwood used to put it at the robot, Delaval used to say this is wrong, they said that once you start to cool the milk it needs to be cooled to 4 degrees ASAP, until then you're better to keep it at cow temperature? Obviously if you have the plate cooler at the robot end you have to have the milk filter at that end as well, I'm not sure what lely do.? I know they used to have the filters on the robots, but the most resent ones I've seen are in the dairy alone with the tube cooler.

That's interesting, I would have thought any cooling would be a bonus as far as bacto is concerned? Perhaps some bacteria multiply at lower than body temperature? Could make it worse then?

My 5,30 brain is a bit sharper than the 9,30 thought while I was milking the tank lines are 25mm, I was thinking about sleeving mine, its the sort of thing you only get one chance to do some chilled water or glycol through would surely make a difference?

So the compressed air only blasts the line through before a wash?

Thanks

 

[thesilentone]

That's interesting, I would have thought any cooling would be a bonus as far as bacto is concerned? Perhaps some bacteria multiply at lower than body temperature? Could make it worse then?

My 5,30 brain is a bit sharper than the 9,30 thought while I was milking the tank lines are 25mm, I was thinking about sleeving mine, its the sort of thing you only get one chance to do some chilled water or glycol through would surely make a difference?

So the compressed air only blasts the line through before a wash?

Thanks

I agree, if there a delays that means the milk is sitting in the line, then bacterial growth should be less at a low temp. The solution for block calving is simple, don't do it

 

[Scholsey]

Like spear says, the milk lines to the tanks, these stay full all the time unless the vms go into a wash, that way air doesn't get to milk or dry the milk to the side of the pipe. I know a farmer in Lancashire put these pipes inside another pipe and had water running through them, not sure it or improved things. As for the pioes on the robot, I wouldn't bother. Wouldn't have thought it would make much difference. There is 1 question I'd ask everyone on here. Should the plate cooler be at the robot or in the dairy? I know Fullwood used to put it at the robot, Delaval used to say this is wrong, they said that once you start to cool the milk it needs to be cooled to 4 degrees ASAP, until then you're better to keep it at cow temperature? Obviously if you have the plate cooler at the robot end you have to have the milk filter at that end as well, I'm not sure what lely do.? I know they used to have the filters on the robots, but the most resent ones I've seen are in the dairy alone with the tube cooler.

Got tube coolers above the robots and the filter is 30 meters of milk line away next to the bulk tank, all seems to work ok, only have 1 robot on the 30m milk line the other 2 are on a 10m milk line. If I had 2 x 30 milk lines I think I would like glycol or ice bank cooling through the tube coolers.

 

[Magners]

Got tube coolers above the robots and the filter is 30 meters of milk line away next to the bulk tank, all seems to work ok, only have 1 robot on the 30m milk line the other 2 are on a 10m milk line. If I had 2 x 30 milk lines I think I would like glycol or ice bank cooling through the tube coolers.

I guess that's the advantage of a tube cooler over a plate cooler, with a tube cooler you can have the milk filters after it.
DeLaval used to say that there are enzymes in the milk which look after the milk for up to an hour which stop the bad bacteria from growing, but once you start to cool the milk these stop working hence why you have to cool the milk to 4 degrees or lower asap once you start to cool the milk ? Like most of you, always thought the warmer the milk,the faster the bad bacteria grew ?

 

[Magners]

That's interesting, I would have thought any cooling would be a bonus as far as bacto is concerned? Perhaps some bacteria multiply at lower than body temperature? Could make it worse then?

My 5,30 brain is a bit sharper than the 9,30 thought while I was milking the tank lines are 25mm, I was thinking about sleeving mine, its the sort of thing you only get one chance to do some chilled water or glycol through would surely make a difference?

So the compressed air only blasts the line through before a wash?

Thanks

I think the sleeving would work as long as you can seal it ok and you're able to remove this water before a hot wash, otherwise it will cool the wash water., we just use lagging to insulate it which helps.
yes that's right, the compressed air only pushes the milk through before the wash. I assume all robot makes are the same ?

 

[upnortheast]

There is 1 question I'd ask everyone on here. Should the plate cooler be at the robot or in the dairy?

Our plate coolers are in the dairy, milk line run approx 40m away from the robots through u/g duct
Never caused any probs

 

[Demolition Man]

Just trying to figure out water supply to the paddocks on a robotic grazing setup. Some say water trough in robot shed to encourage cows to come in. I'd be a bit concerned not having water in the paddocks though. Also anybody have a rough estimate of what size water troughs for 50 cow ABC 8 hour paddocks?

 

[Sid]

Just trying to figure out water supply to the paddocks on a robotic grazing setup. Some say water trough in robot shed to encourage cows to come in. I'd be a bit concerned not having water in the paddocks though. Also anybody have a rough estimate of what size water troughs for 50 cow ABC 8 hour paddocks?

Milking permission and ABC grazing through timed gates will get them to move.
Water in paddocks on our system