Roscommon Simmental sale advice.

[Charolais cattle]

Is the simmental sale over in north ere? Jst dont get y people go mad and buy at southern sales.. the christmas cracker sale for charolais... first 10 out of 11 bull came north ere..

 

[johnspeehs]

Is the simmental sale over in north ere? Jst dont get y people go mad and buy at southern sales.. the christmas cracker sale for charolais... first 10 out of 11 bull came north ere..

Tells you something about the quality of cattle they have.

 

[Charolais cattle]

NI bulls were incredibly trendy in Perth/Stirling 10-15 years ago and would make mental money as they were bred small , thick and muscly , and this was for a while a passing craze.

That soon passed though and these days taller , much more maternal bulls are what's wanted by the ringside with calving ease and milk to aid a calf's rapid development the order of the day. NI bulls definitely not as easy sold on average nowadays , although the big names will still cash the headlines.

I saw a very good young NI bull with polled genetics in his pedigree go through the ring at the end of the sale in October for only 2000 gns. That was a bull with potential.

his figures must of let him down.. lot people luking at figures.. back breeding.. then the luk at bull...

 

[Charolais cattle]

Tells you something about the quality of cattle they have.

plenty of gd bulls in Dungannon last November.. in charolais sale .. 12 month old bull made 4k.. nothing rong wit tat..

 

[Charolais cattle]

In fairness.. sum people find luking at figures ere in the north to hard to work out.. and the south its simple wit the star rating..

 

[johnspeehs]

plenty of gd bulls in Dungannon last November.. in charolais sale .. 12 month old bull made 4k.. nothing rong wit tat..

Absolutely,plenty of good bulls in the north especially char but i haven't found the Simmental I'm looking for so that's why I'm going south, just like lots of folk go to Stirling or Carlisle but I just don't have the time for that at the minute.

 

[M-J-G]

I can't speak for Charolais, but NI & ROI Simmental pedigrees will have pretty much the same bulls in them.
The cause being that most have small herds and are mainly using the same few AI sires, so much so that the Roscommon sale often has the lot numbers that are off each AI bull.

There is a pretty narrow gene pool in the ROI simmental, with one or more of the same few animals appearing in most pedigrees.

@johnspeehs on breeding, the few that I gave a second look to were 7,12,15,29 & 30

As far as figures go, the star system seems to be regularly in dispute, but I'd say it's better than our UK EBVs, but better doesn't nescessarily mean good.

 

[CharcoalWally]

his figures must of let him down.. lot people luking at figures.. back breeding.. then the luk at bull...

More the fact that he wasn't grossly over-fat that let him down. .......

 

[johnspeehs]

I can't speak for Charolais, but NI & ROI Simmental pedigrees will have pretty much the same bulls in them.
The cause being that most have small herds and are mainly using the same few AI sires, so much so that the Roscommon sale often has the lot numbers that are off each AI bull.

There is a pretty narrow gene pool in the ROI simmental, with one or more of the same few animals appearing in most pedigrees.

@johnspeehs on breeding, the few that I gave a second look to were 7,12,15,29 & 30

As far as figures go, the star system seems to be regularly in dispute, but I'd say it's better than our UK EBVs, but better doesn't nescessarily mean good.

Thanks Martin , 3 of the ones you mentioned were ones I looked at as well which is good for the confidence. It’s very difficult looking through a catalogue when you don’t really know what you’re doing .

 

[CharcoalWally]

So far I've got up to lot 50, and on paper , lot 47 is interesting as well as the bulls Martin has mentioned.

 

[Ashtree]

Down here in the ROI there has been a lot of farmer resistance and criticism of the star system in the first few years. Certainly I was one who wasn’t a fan.
Nonetheless, it has taken hold now and more farmers are accepting the system as we now see replacement heifers from high rank cows and bulls actually producing the better calves.
The key when buying a bull is getting the highest possible reliability index score within the trait(s) you most want to develop in your herd.
Don’t know anything about Roscommon though !!
But good luck in your search wherever you buy!

 

[MrA.G.]

Was speaking to friend of @M-J-G this evening who breeds Simmentals if you were wanting a look closer to home. He currently has a few including a steinadler son, Martin will know more but I think he would produce growthy cattle but maybe not your type @johnspeehs

 

[Not again]

Bought a bull there last year. Was in the same position as you. We contacted the society to enquire about different bulls but they just sent us a catalogue. When we went to the sale a lot of the bulls weren’t there which was a bit annoying to say the least. We got one of the bulls we had picked out in the end but it could have been a wasted journey. Make sure the bull you want is actually going to be in the sale

 

[Agrivator]

Now that the Simmental is firmly established as a maternal sire, what should the breeders concentrate on?

Docility
Longevity,
Feet,
Milk and udder conformation
Daughters' calving ease.

And give less prominence to growth and other external features which the buyer can judge anyway, particularly if the buyer is astute enough to estimate how old the bull was when he was born.

 

[Smallfarmer1]

Now that the Simmental is firmly established as a maternal sire, what should the breeders concentrate on?

Docility
Longevity,
Feet,
Milk and udder conformation
Daughters' calving ease.

And give less prominence to growth and other external features which the buyer can judge anyway, particularly if the buyer is astute enough to estimate how old the bull was when he was born.

Simmental in general are a big breed so you would like them to retain the size. In general they are excellent milkers so no problems there. Maternal calving ease could improve slightly, i wouldnt have as much confidence going into a simmy cow as i would a charolais or limousin. They are all relatively quite imo. Their feet can be problematic because of their big size so there isnt much you can do.

For me the biggest reason i wouldnt choose a simmental is because of their bull calves. They can be very raw and if you can add a bit of muscle to the breed along with the high growth rates youre onto a winner

 

[M-J-G]

Now that the Simmental is firmly established as a maternal sire, what should the breeders concentrate on?

Docility
Longevity,
Feet,
Milk and udder conformation
Daughters' calving ease.

And give less prominence to growth and other external features which the buyer can judge anyway, particularly if the buyer is astute enough to estimate how old the bull was when he was born.

Now that the simmental is firmly established as a maternal sire? What else was it?

 

[hillman]

Bought a bull there last year. Was in the same position as you. We contacted the society to enquire about different bulls but they just sent us a catalogue. When we went to the sale a lot of the bulls weren’t there which was a bit annoying to say the least. We got one of the bulls we had picked out in the end but it could have been a wasted journey. Make sure the bull you want is actually going to be in the sale

Agree on that , similar two yrs ago 70+ bulls advertised only approx 45 turned up, bad reflection on society that they allow this amount to not turn up

 

[hillman]

Simmental in general are a big breed so you would like them to retain the size. In general they are excellent milkers so no problems there. Maternal calving ease could improve slightly, i wouldnt have as much confidence going into a simmy cow as i would a charolais or limousin. They are all relatively quite imo. Their feet can be problematic because of their big size so there isnt much you can do.

For me the biggest reason i wouldnt choose a simmental is because of their bull calves. They can be very raw and if you can add a bit of muscle to the breed along with the high growth rates youre onto a winner

What type of bull calves do you have , certainly wouldn't call my lads raw ?

 

[CharcoalWally]

For me the biggest reason i wouldnt choose a simmental is because of their bull calves. They can be very raw and if you can add a bit of muscle to the breed along with the high growth rates youre onto a winner

Here in the UK , I would say that the last time the Simmental was "raw" would have been back in the late 80's /early 90's , when an unfortunate fashion for big , strong boned cattle quickly ran it's course. Ever since the breed has been focussed largely on fleshing traits , milk and calving , for we are a maternal breed , and for that reason , I'm not interested in adding muscle to the breed.

Find what you do well , and stick to it. There's already plenty of muscle breeds out there.

 

[M-J-G]

Exactly!
There are plenty of double and heavily muscled types to choose from, there is no need for the simmental to try to copy the terminals.
Some SIM breeders have tried to and it has at times been at the cost of growth, easy fleshing and maternal abity, which is what the Simmental is all about In my book.
You'll get mainly U grade males and R grade females from a good Sim, which isn't a bad byproduct from a functional self replacing system IMO.