Rotary vs straw walker

[marshboy]

What sort of output can the largest JD rotary achieve in wheat.Do they have the same output as the Claas 770 and 780. Also with the JD large walker machine how much less output than the mid range JD rotary.

 

[juke]

2009 jd t660 straw walker in wheat 70 acre a day in good fields 3.5 ton crop needs a good operator to get the best from doesn't like damp conditions tho.. I'm lead to believe the latest Deere combines are better again . No idea with rotaries

 

[l'ordinary bonville]

I swapped a T670i JD for a Lexion 670

JD would leave the Class standing in stood, dry, ripe wheat or barley in the heat of the day.Would almost rival a narrow rotary.

However, the rest of the time the Class is the better machine

Now I push about 30tph barley and almost 40tph wheat through the Lexion virtually all day long, 5-10%more in the afternoon, 10% less early and late (when the JD would be stopped)

On this farm the combine size is driven by wheat area of 700ish acres out of a total 1200 combinable and being in northern England a 10-12 day window for wheat. So I get through 60-70 acres a day of 4+ tonnes an acre.

If I was to grow more corn I could increase combining capacity by adding an extra trailer man to allow all unloading to be on the move, grow a bigger spread of crops, or accept harvesting in less than ideal conditions some years and drying more.

Or run a rotary

 

[Brisel]

What sort of output can the largest JD rotary achieve in wheat.Do they have the same output as the Claas 770 and 780. Also with the JD large walker machine how much less output than the mid range JD rotary.

I've run a JD 690 for the last 6 years & a STS before that. Comparable to a 9.80 NH or Lexion 760 though different conditions suit different machines IMO. Not a 3000 acre machine.

 

[willy]

I've run a JD 690 for the last 6 years & a STS before that. Comparable to a 9.80 NH or Lexion 760 though different conditions suit different machines IMO. Not a 3000 acre machine.

how many acres are you putting through the JD?
also what header have you got?

TIA

 

[Brisel]

how many acres are you putting through the JD?
also what header have you got?

TIA

3100 acres to start with, down to 2200 acres now. Got a NH CR 9.90 now which is definitely boss of that average though with restrictions on how late we can cut in the day (gamekeepers). Both on 35ft headers. The CR is much better on the straw but nothing like a walker.

 

[willy]

3100 acres to start with, down to 2200 acres now. Got a NH CR 9.90 now which is definitely boss of that average though with restrictions on how late we can cut in the day (gamekeepers). Both on 35ft headers. The CR is much better on the straw but nothing like a walker.

SO IS THE CR AND THE JD SIMIALR OUTPUT WOULD YOU SAY?

 

[Brisel]

An 8.90 or 9.80 would be roughly equal to a s690 IMO

 

[Clayfarmer]

Rotaries or Hybrids need far more power than a walker machine and have far greater outputs.

I was replying to the OPs finding, that out of combines with similar outputs, the walker machine had noticeably lower losses-which is particularly interesting. I wasn't comparing machines of different output.
In the history of the battles between rotaries and walkers, it had been found that there is little real life difference in combine output for a given engine power. It's just that the walkers have always played catch-up in the power stakes and therefore output stakes.

I am not sure a straw walker is inherently inefficient in principle. A rotary needs a conventional type of beater/drum at the back to separate the last of the grain from the straw as it doesnt shake the straw. This idea seems to have been nicked from the MF 525 Multiflow unit which was a bodge to compensate for to short straw walkers. Later walker combines concentrated on improving the seperation at the front of the machine instead. Which might be a factor in the lower losses, or it might be the fact the walker machine has a grain pan which acts as a gravity seperator which drops clean grain on the front of the sieves with the chaff in top which used to be considered essential for sieve capacity.

Regardless we shouldn't underestimate the cost of grain losses as at 3-6% the cost of the lost grain can equal the combine contractor cost. About £10,000 per 300 acres left rotting....

And despite the cost and technology, modern combines seem dreadful for losses.

 

[Properjob]

I was replying to the OPs finding, that out of combines with similar outputs, the walker machine had noticeably lower losses-which is particularly interesting. I wasn't comparing machines of different output.
In the history of the battles between rotaries and walkers, it had been found that there is little real life difference in combine output for a given engine power. It's just that the walkers have always played catch-up in the power stakes and therefore output stakes.

I am not sure a straw walker is inherently inefficient in principle. A rotary needs a conventional type of beater/drum at the back to separate the last of the grain from the straw as it doesnt shake the straw. This idea seems to have been nicked from the MF 525 Multiflow unit which was a bodge to compensate for to short straw walkers. Later walker combines concentrated on improving the seperation at the front of the machine instead. Which might be a factor in the lower losses, or it might be the fact the walker machine has a grain pan which acts as a gravity seperator which drops clean grain on the front of the sieves with the chaff in top which used to be considered essential for sieve capacity.

Regardless we shouldn't underestimate the cost of grain losses as at 3-6% the cost of the lost grain can equal the combine contractor cost. About £10,000 per 300 acres left rotting....

And despite the cost and technology, modern combines seem dreadful for losses.

I really don't mean to be argumentative but you are completely wrong with some of your points which could be misleading for others. The market leading rotary/hybrid combine in the UK, probably the rest of Western Europe too, is the Lexion 740-780, which has the same APS, drum/concave as the walker model equivalents followed by rotors. There is no beater/drum at the back? Walker machines do not have lower losses than rotary/hybrid equivalents hence why no manufacturer has a walker machine as their flagship.

 

[Clayfarmer]

What I am trying to get at is that the OP found lower losses with the walker which is the interesting point. It sounds a decent machine.

I was merely trying to point out that walker combines are not inherently inferior to rotarys of similar capacity.

It's just that the walker models have always taken time to catch up in the big capacity stakes.

 

[juke]

I really don't mean to be argumentative but you are completely wrong with some of your points which could be misleading for others. The market leading rotary/hybrid combine in the UK, probably the rest of Western Europe too, is the Lexion 740-780, which has the same APS, drum/concave as the walker model equivalents followed by rotors. There is no beater/drum at the back? Walker machines do not have lower losses than rotary/hybrid equivalents hence why no manufacturer has a walker machine as their flagship.

Deere produce more combines than class do in Europe..

 

[T Hectares]

What I am trying to get at is that the OP found lower losses with the walker which is the interesting point. It sounds a decent machine.

I was merely trying to point out that walker combines are not inherently inferior to rotarys of similar capacity.

It's just that the walker models have always taken time to catch up in the big capacity stakes.

Generally in low dry straw yields Walkers are closer to Rotarys as they also are in lower yielding crops like OSR and Beans

A Walker machine will always be limited by the depth of straw on the walkers hindering grain seperation, a rotary excels because of it's larger area of powered separation will produce lower losses in high yielding crops at a faster speed

My 30ft CX has great losses up-to 4kph in a decent 11t/ha Wheat crop after this losses from the walkers creep up to the point that by 5kph an equivalent CR would have lower rotor losses, both machines have the same sieve area, the extra output comes from the powered separation and the extra power that the rotors take...

 

[KB6930]

A dry year and light straw crops will make a walker combine look good

We were on a lexion 650 with a 6.6m header and struggling to get grain out the straw in 2017 they brought a 670 in on demo with a 7.5m and our own combine walked away from it the walkers just couldn't cope with any more straw

We then tried a 750 with a 7.5 and it's a totally different combine we ended up buying it and even tho this has been a very easy go this harvest it just eats crop with minimal losses

Biggest problem we're finding is the narrow body machine you need to slow down a fair bit going across a slope compared to the 6 walker as it seems to put it out the drives more

We want all the straw and never wanted a hybrid but need the output but only time we've had straw quality issues is in the winter barley / oats when it was in the high 20's the mid afternoon it was chewing straw up

You've got to watch demo drivers back in 2012 we were running a 450 tucano and they brought a 5 walker lexion in and he came racing up behind me but after dropping the stubble height to match ours and looking under the row it soon slowed him down and couldn't keep up with ours

 

[Bossfarmer]

I swapped a T670i JD for a Lexion 670

JD would leave the Class standing in stood, dry, ripe wheat or barley in the heat of the day.Would almost rival a narrow rotary.

However, the rest of the time the Class is the better machine

Now I push about 30tph barley and almost 40tph wheat through the Lexion virtually all day long, 5-10%more in the afternoon, 10% less early and late (when the JD would be stopped)

On this farm the combine size is driven by wheat area of 700ish acres out of a total 1200 combinable and being in northern England a 10-12 day window for wheat. So I get through 60-70 acres a day of 4+ tonnes an acre.

If I was to grow more corn I could increase combining capacity by adding an extra trailer man to allow all unloading to be on the move, grow a bigger spread of crops, or accept harvesting in less than ideal conditions some years and drying more.

Or run a rotary

a lexion 670 will be a rotary? is that about 10 acres/hr you are cutting? forward speed and header size?

 

[juke]

a lexion 670 will be a rotary? is that about 10 acres/hr you are cutting? forward speed and header size?

Lexion 670 is the biggest walker machine they do.. roatarys start with a 7

 

[tr250]

Lexion 670 is the biggest walker machine they do.. roatarys start with a 7

Yes it looks like a rotary though with the wide tank lids and the cattle truck looking vents on the side. But no real threshing difference to a 650

 

[Bossfarmer]

Lexion 670 is the biggest walker machine they do.. roatarys start with a 7

what sort of acreage will a 25ft 670 do in an hour on spring barley?

 

[Steevo]

You've got to watch demo drivers back in 2012 we were running a 450 tucano and they brought a 5 walker lexion in and he came racing up behind me but after dropping the stubble height to match ours and looking under the row it soon slowed him down and couldn't keep up with ours

The day they make a loss monitor that can actually weigh the grain lost the day they’ll sell twice as many combines.

 

[Sandy]

what sort of acreage will a 25ft 670 do in an hour on spring barley?

30t/hr spot rate