Roundup Causes Cancer

[casemx 270]

I find it interesting to note that this court case was supported by Carey Gillan anti GM campaigner smell a rat

 

[icanshootwell]

to be honest, I couldn't care less if it causes cancer or not . . .

I'm more concerned about any negative effects it may have on soil biology, much more worrying to me . . .

So whats your thoughts on that, i sometimes use it to kill off an old lay before a wheat crop, if i thought it damaged worms and other living organisms, i would stop using it and work the ground earlier before planting.

 

[graham99]

Incidentally - all those saying it is safe etc, have you stopped to look at how many peope are / have become intollerant to glutten etc over say the last 15 years?
Do we not think that adding this kind of engineered chemical - can contriute to the increasing numbers of people whom suffer dysbiosis of the gut / intestine?

Seems plausible / logical to me - that spraying a chemical designed to do what glypho does, may also be affecting our ability to continue to eat certain food stuffs, which ironically have this alleged 'SAFE' chemical sprayed very near to harvesting...

it is amazing how many business do not care about their customers.
the funny part is ,no customers ,no business .

 

[graham99]

the trouble with round up is it has allowed lazy farming to take over

 

[Guy Smith]

the trouble with round up is it has allowed lazy farming to take over

If you mean by lazy not cultivating to control weeds pre drilling thereby reducing GHG emissions from tractors and not disturbing soil structures then you are right.

In the 1950s and 60s my old chap used to spend time raking up couch rhizomes then burning them. Then along came RoundUp and made me lazy.

 

[Pond digger]

If you mean by lazy not cultivating to control weeds pre drilling thereby reducing GHG emissions from tractors and not disturbing soil structures then you are right.

In the 1950s and 60s my old chap used to spend time raking up couch rhizomes then burning them. Then along came RoundUp and made me lazy.

Absolutely!

 

[Gong Farmer]

So whats your thoughts on that, i sometimes use it to kill off an old lay before a wheat crop, if i thought it damaged worms and other living organisms, i would stop using it and work the ground earlier before planting.

I was always led to believe that glyphosate is broken on contact with the soil. I suppose the breakdown products could still have effects (don't know what they are).

 

[Fallowfield]

I wonder what Warburtons make of it all and what contingency plans they might have if it becomes well known about pre harvest treatment.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

I was always led to believe that glyphosate is broken on contact with the soil. I suppose the breakdown products could still have effects (don't know what they are).

There is some interesting research info on the net about the effects on soil biota but nothing I've found worrying, in my opinion at least.
It just changes populations a little which (in theory) weakens the crops resistances a little, but compared to most other chemicals is relatively safe.

Obviously fungii, algae, bacteria and some protozoans use the shikimate pathway as plants do (so it isn't exactly the boon to benefitting soil health that some wish to believe it to be) but it also isn't a terrible thing for occasional and educated usage from that point of view.
High organic matter levels lessen the effects, according to most research I'm aware of, as that lessens the effects of most external factors, including fungal resistance/general resilience in the crop.

Extrapolating that further (or guessing?) that if it does make for a more prone crop, then the pesticides used to counter any effects would likely have much more effect on the soil biota than the initial glyphosate application to dessicate the previous crop.

Nothing has "no effect" but in my belief and research on the topic, roundup is the lesser of evils.

It's more public perception that's the issue, they don't want it in the foodchain but the alternatives will have effects, no doubt about that!

It would certainly be an interesting "what if" all the time and effort spent on developing chemistry hadn't been, the food supply model would look nothing like it does today.
Oversupply would be much less of an issue (unless of course people lived longer as a result of different dietary choices).
But that's off the topic of the thread

 

[Bury the Trash]

If you mean by lazy not cultivating to control weeds pdrilling thereby reducing GHG emissions from tractors and not disturbing soil structures then you are right.

In the 1950s and 60s my old chap used to spend time raking up couch rhizomes then burning them. Then along came RoundUp and made me lazy.

Yes excellent result on the couch, complete success ..and very cost effective even back in the days when it cost an awful lot more per ltre.
Fashionable fungicde agrononmy seems to be a big factor in making its use pre - harvest necessary
also they spray off those leys before ploughing .. doesnt need it if one works hard at ploughing well, instead of just sitting on the seat .
after that ploughing use selective herbicide cleanup (as you would anyway)then in that s barley then w wheat. one simple example..
lazy no thought on rotation ..lazy no livestock, lazy beholden to agronomists ..........

mind you it hasnt got rid of black grass

 

[Highland Mule]

But we are 1/3 organic and 1/3 stewardship with no chemicals. Only 1/3 of our land receives chemicals and at a much reduced rate as we rotate with grass. Why is that burying our heads in the sand and refusing to accept the problems? Surely it's a step in the right direction? I know exactly what organic production entails and it's not a silver bullet. Yield is about half, diesel is about triple, plus the cultivation leads to erosion even on medium land such as ours because soil naturally migrates downhill over many years. We have a lot to relearn from organic production that will benefit us but I feel at least for the short term it's not whether all chemicals are bad, it's how can we use a minimal amount and in a responsible manner, that leads to an overall positive outcome for us the environment. There are many posts here in favour of a ban on glyphosphate pre harvest, I feel that must be a good thing. Give credit where it's due and try to work with us, it will be more productive

Sorry, did I read that correctly? Organic food uses six times as much diesel to produce as conventional, for each tonne produced? That's quite a difference if true.

 

[Still Farming]

it is amazing how many business do not care about their customers.
the funny part is ,no customers ,no business .

it is amazing how many business do not care about their customers.
the funny part is ,no customers ,no business .

@theguardianrss thread again on subject
@Clive @Chris F lots of threads will they merge maybe ?

 

[ollie989898]

Yes excellent result on the couch, complete success ..and very cost effective even back in the days when it cost an awful lot more per ltre.
Fashionable fungicde agrononmy seems to be a big factor in making its use pre - harvest necessary
also they spray off those leys before ploughing .. doesnt need it if one works hard at ploughing well, instead of just sitting on the seat .
after that ploughing use selective herbicide cleanup (as you would anyway)then in that s barley then w wheat. one simple example..
lazy no thought on rotation ..lazy no livestock, lazy beholden to agronomists ..........

mind you it hasnt got rid of black grass

The use of glyphosate in destroying grass leys is totally justified, you cannot bury the entire root mass of AMG or couch in a ley and it is the proliferation of these and other weed grasses that cause leys to reach an unproductive end state, thus necessitating their replacement.

 

[ollie989898]

Bit off topic but do we need to be concerned about 300-000 tons of radioactive mud thats about to be dumped in the see a mile off Cardiff bay

The Sea is already full of naturally occurring radioisotopes, and the fallout from over 2000 nuclear weapons tests. It will not hurt you.

 

[Bury the Trash]

The use of glyphosate in destroying grass leys is totally justified, you cannot bury the entire root mass of AMG or couch in a ley and it is the proliferation of these and other weed grasses that cause leys to reach an unproductive end state, thus necessitating their replacement.

no i diasgree, non rhizone type grasses (prg ,irg ie in comon use dont need it.and clovers are better killed by other chems
one big point being its used too much without extra thought partly as its so cheap now than it used to be.

 

[ollie989898]

no i diasgree, non rhizone type grasses (prg ,irg ie in comon use dont need it.and clovers are better killed by other chems
one big point being its used too much without extra thought partly as its so cheap now than it used to be.

They do indeed need it- if you spread PRG or hybrids in the next crop you are then obliged to use other chemistry and increase selection pressure on them. It is as simple as that.

 

[Bury the Trash]

They do indeed need it- if you spread PRG or hybrids in the next crop you are then obliged to use other chemistry and increase selection pressure on them. It is as simple as that.

Nope, not here anyway we rarely use Glyphosate.
Sheep use of the grass field over winter ... plough and spring barley then winter wheat ( an agronomist I remember used to say go wheat first but that's not so good ime.for a reason or two)
.....then oats (for the sheep)or maybe Winter barley (but that doesn't regularly pay as well as sb I find ) and maybe a catch forage crop snuk in somewhere / back to grass as a break
.it works in practice been doing it that way for a long time ..

 

[icanshootwell]

Nope, not here anyway we rarely use Glyphosate.
Sheep use of the grass field over winter ... plough and spring barley then winter wheat ( an agronomist I remember used to say go wheat first but that's not so good ime.for a reason or two)
.....then oats (for the sheep)or maybe Winter barley (but that doesn't regularly pay as well as sb I find ) and maybe a catch forage crop snuk in somewhere / back to grass as a break
.it works in practice been doing it that way for a long time ..

I was always told not to follow wheat with barley, but if it work for you, who,s to say its wrong.
Back in the 90,s we did the same as you, but put potatoes in after the grass, then i realized after a few rotations what spuds do to the ground, won,t be any grown here again.
Another comment on weed control, the banning of stubble burning did not help the black grass, couch problem, i used to get good results here. but like most things, it gets mismanaged, it was one of my childhood memories setting light to a stubble field, Happy days.

 

[ollie989898]

I would not habitually seed barley into an old ley if I could help it, for there are far less grass weed herbicide options if you get a big issue arise.

Wheat is fine around here, established in September into drier conditions, it has more time to sort itself ready for the winter.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I would not habitually seed barley into an old ley if I could help it, for there are far less grass weed herbicide options if you get a big issue arise.

Wheat is fine around here, established in September into drier conditions, it has more time to sort itself ready for the winter.

ploughed for end of March early Apr sown Spring barley.
No grass weed issues in its relatively short growing season.... easy bl weed spraydocs etc (even wild oats )
Ploughed after sb for w wheat ..which then has the 'full hit' of fertilty from the ley break ready for it.
we dont have black grass.
i wish i could say its as easy as falling off a log