Routine Foot Trimming in Sheep: UK Farmers Practices and Attitudes

[Bury the Trash]

Well all I know is I have never routinely trimmed and I actually, seriously cant rember the last time I trimmed a sheeps foot .

Used to keep dorsets though and they seemed to grow wasted hoof , or not wear it off faster, whatever, they are a bit slow and lazy so perhaps its the latter, but I actually have no idea, other than I wouldnt give a lame sheep very long here, so perhaps it's been bred out. Thankfully .

Blinkin codd is the potential problem I see , as there are dairy cows all around as a risk.
But then trimming is not relivant to that anyway.

 

[Longlowdog]

Done. I don't agree with routine trimming but will trim a foot that is not infected if Aladdin's slippers begin to alter the natural gait of any particular sheep.

 

[polk_farmer]

Done, should have had an option for culling as best way to get rid of footrot

 

[unlacedgecko]

Done. I don't agree with routine trimming but will trim a foot that is not infected if Aladdin's slippers begin to alter the natural gait of any particular sheep.

Trim it straight across the neck

 

[Longlowdog]

My Beltex lead an easy life, they are understocked on pretty decent grass. I doubt they walk 300 yards a day and never do any road work. How are they supposed to abrade their hoof walls? If I culled every sheep for the sin of growing hoof they have no opportunity of wearing down I would have none left over time. I cull my terminal sire flock on terminal and maternal traits as it is. Most need little attention but every now and then one will have long toes, even The Red Tractor C.O.P states they can be trimmed.
Man has interfered with sheep for millennia, changing, size, muscularity, hair to wool. and a dozen cosmetic traits. Until the latest no-trim advice hoof growth was not a consideration in those developments. To cull every decent, non-lame sheep for having long toes would decimate the UK flock.
I used to have Soay's. Evolved to scratch a living in a harsh environment they would by nature walk miles over hills and clamber among rocks that would keep their feet down naturally, however on my good grass they grew hoof for fun. Were they bad sheep? Should I have culled the lot? If you buy one of my sheep and make it work a little harder for its keep and it wore down its hoof you'd think it was a great sheep but you'd have had me cull it on my farm.
Not every sheep is kept under the same conditions, blanket statements don't fit every flock. Nurture plays as big a part as nature, simply moving a sheep to a different system will affect their perceived virtues and failings. We can't damn every sheep for every failing in every respect or there would be no sheep. The hill guys want extreme hardiness and that rules out the lowland breeds, the lowland guy wants prolificacy and that rules out the hill breeds. Thus, no sheep if we cull for everything that offends everyone.

 

[neilo]

My Beltex lead an easy life, they are understocked on pretty decent grass. I doubt they walk 300 yards a day and never do any road work. How are they supposed to abrade their hoof walls? If I culled every sheep for the sin of growing hoof they have no opportunity of wearing down I would have none left over time. I cull my terminal sire flock on terminal and maternal traits as it is. Most need little attention but every now and then one will have long toes, even The Red Tractor C.O.P states they can be trimmed.
Man has interfered with sheep for millennia, changing, size, muscularity, hair to wool. and a dozen cosmetic traits. Until the latest no-trim advice hoof growth was not a consideration in those developments. To cull every decent, non-lame sheep for having long toes would decimate the UK flock.
I used to have Soay's. Evolved to scratch a living in a harsh environment they would by nature walk miles over hills and clamber among rocks that would keep their feet down naturally, however on my good grass they grew hoof for fun. Were they bad sheep? Should I have culled the lot? If you buy one of my sheep and make it work a little harder for its keep and it wore down its hoof you'd think it was a great sheep but you'd have had me cull it on my farm.
Not every sheep is kept under the same conditions, blanket statements don't fit every flock. Nurture plays as big a part as nature, simply moving a sheep to a different system will affect their perceived virtues and failings. We can't damn every sheep for every failing in every respect or there would be no sheep. The hill guys want extreme hardiness and that rules out the lowland breeds, the lowland guy wants prolificacy and that rules out the hill breeds. Thus, no sheep if we cull for everything that offends everyone.

I think a good starting point is culling out anything that grows a lot more hoof than the others in the flock, when run under the same system.
I remember giving a really good shaped Charollais ewe the benefit of the doubt once. She kept growing hoof at a far higher rate than her flock mates, and then her progeny did too. None of that line are here now.

You've got To start somewhere, although you might put different weighting’s on different selection criteria, according to your circumstances. I do know one pedigree flock that was trimming every animal 3x a year, to ‘keep them right’. Wtf?

 

[ShooTa]

done - the middle image didnt load correctly for me for some reason

 

[unlacedgecko]

I do know one pedigree flock that was trimming every animal 3x a year, to ‘keep them right’. Wtf?

He'd be able to afford to employ a man to do that, if only he received a fair price for his stock...

 

[texas pete]

He'd be able to afford to employ a man to do that, if only he received a fair price for his stock...

It's not fair is it?

I remember a Texel breeder proudly telling me she turned over every sheep and trimmed their feet....I never bought any rams off her.

 

[texas pete]

Well all I know is I have never routinely trimmed and I actually, seriously cant rember the last time I trimmed a sheeps foot .

Used to keep dorsets though and they seemed to grow wasted hoof , or not wear it off faster, whatever, they are a bit slow and lazy so perhaps its the latter, but I actually have no idea, other than I wouldnt give a lame sheep very long here, so perhaps it's been bred out. Thankfully .

Blinkin codd is the potential problem I see , as there are dairy cows all around as a risk.
But then trimming is not relivant to that anyway.

CODD can be a devil.

I had it go through a bunch of 500 bought in big Suff x theaves once....great fun..

 

[Longlowdog]

Despite not having anything to do with cattle I've been watching The Hoof G.P on Youtube and he mentioned today that cattle are routine trimmed up to 3 times a year. Should all of those cattle be culled or is the fact that they live in modified environments enough reason to accept routine foot trimming? If so, why all the palaver about foot trimming sheep? Very few sheep live the way their ancestors did?

 

[texas pete]

Despite not having anything to do with cattle I've been watching The Hoof G.P on Youtube and he mentioned today that cattle are routine trimmed up to 3 times a year. Should all of those cattle be culled or is the fact that they live in modified environments enough reason to accept routine foot trimming? If so, why all the palaver about foot trimming sheep? Very few sheep live the way their ancestors did?

Each to their own.

I would think plenty of sheep live the way their ancestors did, terrain and exposure to the elements wise anyway.

Breeding management and selection has replaced predation, selecting desirable traits, as opposed to survival of the fittest (least stupid, with sheep)

Routinely trimming sheeps feet is a bit like pushing your quad bike around, to save fuel.

 

[Longlowdog]

I've already stated I am opposed to routine trimming of all sheep however I do feel blanket statements regarding the issue such as kill everything are not justified. I'm also curious as to why it is acceptable to trim one hoofed animal and not another. The no trim equine fad harmed a lot of horses and didn't last long among people keeping horses evolved in arid areas on pasture with the subsequent hoof growth associated with the horses being in better condition.
I went almost a year without trimming anything and had my ewes in for M.V testing and I showed ewes with the start of Aladdin's Slippers to him. He said 'well they are not lame are they?' but when I pointed out that their gait was being affected he conceded that trimming the tips off would improve their well being. My sheep wander around in grass half way up their legs and even a small excess of hoof catches the sward forcing them to modify their stride. These commercial tups will undoubtedly go on to less lush environments, I very much doubt that they would ever be noticed in that new environment so why should I kill them?
I'm being a devil's advocate simply because I abhor folk making blanket statements well suited to their system without considering the impact that blanket adoption of their opinions would have on other systems. This goes for farming, politics and the rest of my daily life.
I'm fortunate enough to run 1 ewe/acre (if I didn't already cull so hard I'd have 5 by now) but it is very different to folk running 5 ewes/acre.

 

[glensman]

I've already stated I am opposed to routine trimming of all sheep however I do feel blanket statements regarding the issue such as kill everything are not justified. I'm also curious as to why it is acceptable to trim one hoofed animal and not another. The no trim equine fad harmed a lot of horses and didn't last long among people keeping horses evolved in arid areas on pasture with the subsequent hoof growth associated with the horses being in better condition.
I went almost a year without trimming anything and had my ewes in for M.V testing and I showed ewes with the start of Aladdin's Slippers to him. He said 'well they are not lame are they?' but when I pointed out that their gait was being affected he conceded that trimming the tips off would improve their well being. My sheep wander around in grass half way up their legs and even a small excess of hoof catches the sward forcing them to modify their stride. These commercial tups will undoubtedly go on to less lush environments, I very much doubt that they would ever be noticed in that new environment so why should I kill them?
I'm being a devil's advocate simply because I abhor folk making blanket statements well suited to their system without considering the impact that blanket adoption of their opinions would have on other systems. This goes for farming, politics and the rest of my daily life.
I'm fortunate enough to run 1 ewe/acre (if I didn't already cull so hard I'd have 5 by now) but it is very different to folk running 5 ewes/acre.

You are quite right to question dogmatic approaches to anything, we do not practice routine foot trimming but if a sheep is lame and requires some level of trimming it gets it. The most obvious example of this would be gapping up the side of the hoof wall, this can fill with dirt and sometimes grit and become infected. This needs removed by trimming and at least sprayed, anyone who wouldn't do this because of unquestioning faith in some religious foot care regime would be better with no sheep.

 

[unlacedgecko]

You are quite right to question dogmatic approaches to anything, we do not practice routine foot trimming but if a sheep is lame and requires some level of trimming it gets it. The most obvious example of this would be gapping up the side of the hoof wall, this can fill with dirt and sometimes grit and become infected. This needs removed by trimming and at least sprayed, anyone who wouldn't do this because of unquestioning faith in some religious foot care regime would be better with no sheep.

In the situation you describe I would of course treat the sheep. However I'd then mark it for cull as soon as recovered.

 

[Longlowdog]

There are finances for folk to consider as well, a commercial ewe producing fat lambs cost 140 quid to replace and being in the flock she will contribute 7-10 lambs (?) in her life worth £600 gross. Put away to the feeder ring she'll make £75. If she needs 4 foot trims in her life that costs 15 minutes at £15 hr. I don't think culling all ewes with overgrown feet if they are not actually persistently lame from scald, footrot or C.O.D.D makes economic sense across the board particularly as we have to be seen to take every aspect of welfare seriously. Something as simple as altered gait makes a difference to welfare. Sure I'd love to never tip another ewe weighing as much as me up to do feet but I don't consider doing odd feet anywhere as damaging to the future of sheep welfare as hiding problems behind footrot vaccines etc. If you buy 100 ewe lambs from a vaccinating farm what are the chances they will have bad feet if you don't also vaccinate? What will their lambs be like?

 

[Longlowdog]

If a sheep lives among flint is it her fault if she cuts a gap on her hoof?
If a ewe lives in sandy areas and it works its way up the hoof?
Should routine foot bathing be discouraged? It hides issues big time!
No room for dogma here I don't think.

 

[unlacedgecko]

If a sheep lives among flint is it her fault if she cuts a gap on her hoof?
If a ewe lives in sandy areas and it works its way up the hoof?
Should routine foot bathing be discouraged? It hides issues big time!
No room for dogma here I don't think.

I don't footbath.

Trimming feet costs more than the 15mins you describe. There's the cost of gathering the flock, the loss of production between the ewe developing lameness and the treatment.

I'm looking to run large numbers of ewes per labour unit. I want robust animals that will require the minimum of inputs to be productive/profitable.

Every day I don't need to do something with my sheep I can be away earning cash elsewhere.

With me, any animal which requires individual treatment will be marked for cull. I don't price my replacements at £140 either.

 

[glensman]

In the situation you describe I would of course treat the sheep. However I'd then mark it for cull as soon as recovered.

I'm pretty strict with culling, but again one must be careful that it doesn't become dogma. You have to have something to replace it with, how bad a case is it, does she give more than occasional bother with feet etc.

 

[Longlowdog]

As I said I wasn't talking about lameness through bacteria or viral means, simply overgrown hoof. Trimming of odd animals with no genetic potential to continue the issue when gathered for bolusing, worming, fly strike treatment etc obviates the necessity to gather a whole flock for a single sheep issue and would superficially (to me) appear cost effective.
I repeat I am against routine trimming of groups of sheep.