rspb hedge campaign

[Jackov Altraids]

Both sides of the argument are correct to some extent, and that is the problem in that no rules ever take that in to account.
The current restrictions on timings mean I simply can't cut my hedges many years and they are becoming a mess which are less useful for wildlife and no use as a fence.
Done sympathetically, a flail can maintain a healthy hedge but otherwise, can pretty much ruin one.
As I believe should happen with all schemes, it should be for the landowner to present a case for the best management of hedges within their care, which should be supported unless there is very good reason not too.

 

[teslacoils]

Best hedges here were snipped to the ground five years ago. Just had their first trim and look really good.

 

[BrianV]

View attachment 1000251

Hedges are not a static system, their management needs to be dynamic and changing if they are to remain sustainable. Trimming regularly (but at a slightly higher height each year to stop "knuckles" forming), then eventually letting grow up with a view to coppicing or laying to restart the process.

https://ptes.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/Hedge-structure-photos-with-descriptions.pdf

https://ptes.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Hedgerow-guide-web-version.pdf

That's fine if you can afford to pay someone or yourself for the months it takes to lay even a relatively short distance of these hedges & then clear up the mess afterwards, even when laid if you have sheep you then have the cost of fencing, like so many things it's good in theory but nothing near so easy in practise

 

[Ffermer Bach]

Best hedges here were snipped to the ground five years ago. Just had their first trim and look really good.

and that is part of good hedge management, coppice or lay periodically to allow the hedge to rejuvenate, then trim (slightly higher each year for a number of years, then allow to grow out prior to starting the cycle again). Continually trimming hard every year causes a hedge to weaken and eventually die, but it does look "neat" and "shipshape"

 

[Ffermer Bach]

That's fine if you can afford to pay someone or yourself for the months it takes to lay even a relatively short distance of these hedges & then clear up the mess afterwards, even when laid if you have sheep you then have the cost of fencing, like so many things it's good in theory but nothing near so easy in practise

If I hadn't had a grant, it would have been try to get someone in with a tree shear and biomass to coppice the hedge, then re fence, it would not look half as neat, but for the wildlife, it would end up with the same result.

 

[BrianV]

and that is part of good hedge management, coppice or lay periodically to allow the hedge to rejuvenate, then trim (slightly higher each year for a number of years, then allow to grow out prior to starting the cycle again). Continually trimming hard every year causes a hedge to weaken and eventually die, but it does look "neat" and "shipshape"

We must have a very different type of hedge down here as they have now been flailed for more than 40 years & the miserable buggers just will not stop growing!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

We must have a very different type of hedge down here as they have now been flailed for more than 40 years & the miserable buggers just will not stop growing!

I worked on a farm in Western Under Penyard and there were no hedges on the farm, I asked why, was told the old manager got his mate to flail them (he was cheap) and he did such a poor job that they all died! The farm was the farm surrounding Richard Hammonds Bollitree Castle house by the way.

 

[BrianV]

I worked on a farm in Western Under Penyard and there were no hedges on the farm, I asked why, was told the old manager got his mate to flail them (he was cheap) and he did such a poor job that they all died! The farm was the farm surrounding Richard Hammonds Bollitree Castle house by the way.

Have to say I'm not really sure you are for real, I've never yet met a hedge that died because it was flailed, add a bit of round up to the mix & yes they will "die" if that's what you want to achieve!

 

[Already disillusioned]

Didn't cut my hedges this year first time not cut yearly.
Getting ready for elms scheme.
Then had sheep in on winter keep next morning 5 sheep caught up in brambles from hedge next day the same.
So hedge trimmer put on all hedges trimmed now no sheep caught in hedges since.
So sod elms and i will carry on like we always have farming properly.

 

[jondear]

Only time I've seen a hedgehog in recent years is splatted on the roads. Far too many badgers for there to be any hedgehogs.

RSPB spend most of their time protecting and introducing raptors which kill Yellow Hammers.

Starting seeing them first time for 20 years .!Wonder why that is?.?

 

[C.J]

Starting seeing them first time for 20 years .!Wonder why that is?.?

And Hares

 

[egbert]

Then obviously not many nesting birds in all those granite walls, very few, it's true you really need to get out more off the high country wilderness. tried it once...didn't like it much...came back up again quick

 

[Bury the Trash]

We must have a very different type of hedge down here as they have now been flailed for more than 40 years & the miserable buggers just will not stop growing!

its not the hedges that are miserable Brian, its you , moaning in every thread you post in.


p.s. dont bother replying as it is Sunday afternoon snooze time and i see nothing here that is interesting.

 

[An Gof]

its not the hedges that are miserable Brian, its you , moaning in every thread you post in.


p.s. dont bother replying as it is Sunday afternoon snooze time and i see nothing here that is interesting.

In fairness to Brian we have flailed hedges ever since and prior to that cut with Teagle Silver Bullet finger beam trimmer. We have not yet killed any hedge and they continue to grow with what seems renewed vigour every year. Perhaps it a case of location, location, location.
Perhaps also my understanding of a hedge is somewhat different to others. Here it is a proper Cornish hedge. That’s a bank, stone faced both sides with growth on top. We aren’t talking pathetic excuses of a thin strip of thorn. We’em talking the “proper job” Some’s that wide you could drive a tractor on top of ‘em

 

[An Gof]

OK
Instead of bi-annual, leave a percentage to grow for 3-4-8 years (whatever) then steep, then flail annually.
A working rotation round the farm, paying someones wage through the winter.
And/or the retention of standards* for a defined payment?

*one of the very first oaks i milled was a windthrow out of a hedge in that 1990 storm. Today, I would readily pay upwards of a grand for the same tree again.

(you know very well I'm merely postulating solutions to what some perceive as a problem.....IE collapses in ecosystems. I'm not lecturing or winding you up)
(and we'll both wager that this manner of discussion will probably be fudging miles off what will come along)

Sorry to show my ignorance but could explain what is meant/management to “steep” a hedge. It is not a term I have heard before.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Sorry to show my ignorance but could explain what is meant/management to “steep” a hedge. It is not a term I have heard before.

"To 'Steep down' a hedge means to Lay it.

To 'cast up' a hedge means to rebuild the bank using turves to face and soil behind. as in Devon Bank.

 

[egbert]

Sorry to show my ignorance but could explain what is meant/management to “steep” a hedge. It is not a term I have heard before.

it's what 'appened afore they fangled 'edgetrimmers cum along buy

 

[ARW]

OK
Instead of bi-annual, leave a percentage to grow for 3-4-8 years (whatever) then steep, then flail annually.
A working rotation round the farm, paying someones wage through the winter.
And/or the retention of standards* for a defined payment?

*one of the very first oaks i milled was a windthrow out of a hedge in that 1990 storm. Today, I would readily pay upwards of a grand for the same tree again.

(you know very well I'm merely postulating solutions to what some perceive as a problem.....IE collapses in ecosystems. I'm not lecturing or winding you up)
(and we'll both wager that this manner of discussion will probably be fudging miles off what will come along)

Your hedges must not grow much?
If we leave hedges around here after 3-4 years they are nearly to thick to flail, and your 10 acre field will only be 9 and a half!
All hedges are different and around York these needs cutting annually, if left they are 30ft tall and wide in no time

 

[serf]

As above most cost effective way to 'lay' an hedge is 360 with a snipper, few feet off ground let it come back thick and strong in the base and shape it as you want , big burn up and done

 

[Bury the Trash]

In fairness to Brian we have flailed hedges ever since and prior to that cut with Teagle Silver Bullet finger beam trimmer. We have not yet killed any hedge and they continue to grow with what seems renewed vigour every year. Perhaps it a case of location, location, location.
Perhaps also my understanding of a hedge is somewhat different to others. Here it is a proper Cornish hedge. That’s a bank, stone faced both sides with growth on top. We aren’t talking pathetic excuses of a thin strip of thorn. We’em talking the “proper job” Some’s that wide you could drive a tractor on top of ‘em

They all vary don't they. Lot of the banks have fallen out over time , grant will cover a good rebuild with a digger,there are some really good operators ,as nobody does it by hand these days ,like idid for a year or 2 after leaving school, just gaps really though.
need to be on a scheme to get the grant anyway, although they will pay for stock fence as well( im not keen on their wooden gate requirement tho.
a flail trimmer especially a modern high power one will never let a hedge get away. Ive trimmed them all here since 1987 with a not heavy weight flail ,as i put it on a smaller tractor than they generally use these days,as i can nip around without too much deep mess with a dual on if wetter.
we started using a contractor with flail(twose 276) in 1979 which took over from dad with his mid mounted Colwell knive bar trimmer .
theres a mix of types/heights here with taller hedges allowed near the buildings/lambing /small stock fields particularly east west ,its not rocket science but it better with a bit of interest thought towards the subject imo.

No need to smack them all to heck

Biggest difference in growth is type of ground, dry well drained ground doesn't grow no like on heavier ground ,and the shrub./tree type growing there reflect this, just requires a bit differentiation instead of generalisations