Rules on footpaths regarding Cattle

[Hampton]

i have a footpath which runs down the side of a building and continues straight down the middle of a 16 acre field which is currently in grass.
The field in question has direct access to our main cattle shed and is currently stocked with 30 home bred lim X cows and their heifer calves. We have a cull policy on yampy or aggressive cattle, but obviously they are not pets.
All summer they have had access to the 30 acre field next to this but have been shut off this field in order to get some late grass growth so we can put ewes and lambs on it in early spring.
This morning I had a phone call off a nice lady who I didn't know, who said she had tried to walk down the field yesterday with her family when the cattle approached them and frightened her and her children, causing them to exit the field and walk an alternative way down to the pub and river (alterntaive route is about 1km further).
I asked her if they also had a dog with them and she said yes, so obviously I said that this was why the cattle had acted the way they had, and told her that in future should this happen anywhere, to loose the dog off the lead as the cattle do not like dogs.
What is the law regarding dogs and cattle on footpaths, and am I giving the right advice to the walkers (last Sunday someone asked me about going down the footpath and I told him that it wouldn't be a problem but to loose the dog off the lead (using the logic that if I told him he couldn't use the footpath it would be against the law).
I have since loosed the cows though on to the big field to avoid further issues before housing.
Apart from the dog issue, what are people's views on small children walking through cattle. I wouldn't let my 5 and 2 year old in with the cattle, but the public seem oblivious to the risks, particularly as families with children are generally walking their dogs.

 

[Derrick Hughes]

No aswer is there.i am going to mow the fields next year and put the cattle eswhere .loosing dog of does not always work a frightend dog may run back to the owner

 

[Doing it for the kids]

I am not sure of the answer but curious to learn.

Seems daft that you can't use your farm as you see fit. I imagine signs at either end will help mitigate your liability but prob not conclusive

 

[Derrick Hughes]

I am not sure of the answer but curious to learn.

Seems daft that you can't use your farm as you see fit. I imagine signs at either end will help mitigate your liability but prob not conclusive

No one wants a death on their hands signs or not

 

[Hampton]

No aswer is there.i am going to mow the fields next year and put the cattle eswhere .loosing dog of does not always work a frightend dog may run back to the owner

Countryside code does tell people to loose dogs off lead, so in the eyes of the law that is the correct advice. Is it worth putting laminate signs of the code on the stiles? Or is that admitting liability?

 

[Hampton]

No one wants a death on their hands signs or not

I agree, the chap last weekend got quite shirty about having to walk a bit further rather than use the footpath. I just told him that I wasn't stopping him using the footpath, just advising him not to take his dog.

 

[Hampton]

Are you legally allowed to put a "no dogs on footpath" sign up?
@Guy Smith

 

[llamedos]

NFU will provide you with these signs if you ask https://www.nfuonline.com/assets/43302

 

[Hampton]

NFU will provide you with these signs if you ask https://www.nfuonline.com/assets/43302

Thanks, but I don't rate that sign at all!

 

[dannewhouse]

the important thing to remember is its your livelihood, if it fails to make money you may be left without money so the footpath cannot dictate what you do with your land.
we are in a similar situation. we have 4 5 acre paddocks inline which a footpath runs straight through them all so can I not use these for cattle at all? this could be my only land so where else could I put my cattle?

every time there is an "accident" regarding a suckler and a footpath in the paper they always put the farmer should have either not put "dangerous" cattle in with a footpath, temporarily closed the footpath or diverted it around that field.

im not sure on law but the land is yours to do what you need to / want to not theirs to dictate what you will or wont do
you cant stop or deter people from using the footpath but warning signs such as bull in field (provided there is 1 in) or cattle grazing are advised try not to get warning bull in field as sometimes the warning indicates you know its a danger

 

[llamedos]

Thanks, but I don't rate that sign at all!

You can not state anything misleading, or are not supposed to say things like Danger/Beware. as if you are admitting it may be dangerous or telling someone to beware, you are admitting you are in some way liable, or, are dissuading them from having free passage, to which they have a right, a path is a highway, walkers have the right to pass and re pass, if they are led to believe they do not have this right, then you are causing an obstruction.

The signs are there to 'offer advice' similarly you may offer advice that there is a Bull in the field, but not say 'Danger Bull'

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Are you legally allowed to put a "no dogs on footpath" sign up?
@Guy Smith

Everone has to look at their own sitution .but in my opnion if there is an alternative as in putting sheep in said fields or even mowing then it should be considered. Rather than the attitude. My land i shall do as i please

 

[Hampton]

You can not state anything misleading, or are not supposed to say things like Danger/Beware. as if you are admitting it may be dangerous or telling someone to beware, you are admitting you are in some way liable, or, are dissuading them from having free passage, to which they have a right, a path is a highway, walkers have the right to pass and re pass, if they are led to believe they do not have this right, then you are causing an obstruction.

The signs are there to 'offer advice' similarly you may offer advice that there is a Bull in the field, but not say 'Danger Bull'

Understood, that all makes total sense.
My point is more about the rights of dogs. The sign in my opinion has too much conflicting information and is also asking people to assess a dangerous situation very quickly. Surely a "no dogs" sign is much clearer, and stops the problem before it could happen.

 

[Hampton]

Everone has to look at their own sitution .but in my opnion if there is an alternative as in putting sheep in said fields or even mowing then it should be considered. Rather than the attitude. My land i shall do as i please

Don't think I'm not open minded about this, Just want clarification in order to assess this for next year.

 

[llamedos]

I agree, it is a real PIA, and it is about time local councils worked with landowners to help them look at their farms and public paths, and if necessary allow them to re route, to allow land to be workable and walking enjoyable.

But they are under just as much pressure in financial terms as farmers are, and their is not enough money in their coffers to dedicate to things like this.

You simply can not say No dogs, sadly. All you can do is arm the walker with the correct information as it stands at the time, I also agree we do give out conflicting advise - on one hand we tell them to let their dogs go(cattle) and then also exp-ect them to keep their dogs close(sheep)

 

[Derrick Hughes]

Don't think I'm not open minded about this, Just want clarification in order to assess this for next year.

You wont get clarification. There is none
.law states dogs have to be kept under control not on a lead .
I worry constantly about the footpath here. Worry has has stopped for the winter as the cattle have gone and the sheep are back .if i can get the fields cleared i will just mow them and ease my worry

 

[llamedos]

Don't think I'm not open minded about this, Just want clarification in order to assess this for next year.

I have grown up with cattle/sheep/livestock, I can look after myself in the outdoors, I have played the casualty for local Mountain Rescue, on more than one occasion. But.

The other weekend I walked a local moor to assess if I could ride the horse over a particular path. I had the dog with me, half way along a public path there was a large group of cattle, a bull, and cows with young caves at foot, I let the dog off, and weighed up my options of where if necessary i could scramble a wall to get out of their way, I can honestly say I have never felt more intimidated, the ground was hard going, made very boggy by the cattle, in some areas, I had to leave the path completely, 2 of the cows balled out warnings, which, I understood. I genuinely feel sorry for anyone who would not have the where- with- all or understanding I did. I was bloody glad to be away past them and on better ground. imo there should be signs up there allowing people to make an informed decision as to whether they are comfortable enough to continue their walk, or chose another route.

 

[Cab-over Pete]

It's a Public Footpath. It's the public, the people, that have the right to use it. As I understand it, dogs have no specific rights to use the path.

I've never seen a sign that reads Dog Path.

There are cows and calves in the field by my yard. I'm hardly ever there but regularly see folks in the wrong field out for a walk. I don't usually bother because I don't like being bawled at if I'm not at fault, but occasionally I try and advise people where the path is. They usually reply that they can't use the path with the cows and calves there so go where they please.

 

[7610 super q]

As above. I've yet to see it written anywhere that dogs have a right to use a footpath.

 

[llamedos]

Don't think I'm not open minded about this, Just want clarification in order to assess this for next year.

There is also nothing to stop you offering an alternative (permissive) path, so that those with dogs may use that instead. ie avoid the conflict rather than confront it.
I think the best thing would be to speak with your local ROW officer and possibly include at a later date one or two of your nicer dog walkers. News would spread fast if you are seen to be trying to meet them half way for all your sakes.
I stress you are not closing a path, just offering an alternative and this concession may be closed at anytime you require. Again discuss with local ROW officer best way to achieve this.