Rumen fluke

About 18 months ago, I got called into the the gut room at work by Kev, who has has worked there since time immemorial. He showed me what he said were 'maggots' in the rumen of a beast just killed, first time he had seen it. I guessed it was rumen fluke and a google search confirmed it. I would guess the rate has run at about 0.25% since then. He's seen it in a handful of sheep as well.

Must go in and have a chat with Kev next week and see what the latest is. Most of our stuff is sourced between the Borders and N Yorks.
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
There is no doubt that rumen fluke is out there. There is no evidence that it causes any harm as adults, and there is nothing that kills the immature form. Not a straightforward situation - but the current UK advice is should be no need to treat for it.

Chances are the people who saw an improvement was for some other reason (possibly real liver fluke).

Don't extrapolate experiences from other countries. In general this is a minor problem, there are a few very sparse individual case reports of deaths. There are many other things to worry about first. If we rush around treating something we may not need to then we continue to select for resistance in the only effective product.
 

MrA.G.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
when does immature fluke become adult fluke, how long does it take?
our cattle have been in over 6 weeks now, would you treat for rumen fluke?

Better to leave it until 8 weeks after housing so that the immature liver fluke has matured, then you can use levafas or zanil which will kill the mature liver fluke and mature and immature rumen fluke.

last year after we drenched for rumen fluke we saw a big improvement, we was just wondering why and cant understand why the vet is saying not to bother this year, last year was important to do it, this year they are saying treating for rumen fluke has no effect but we beg to differ.

The problem is that oxyclozanide is the only active ingredient which will treat rumen fluke so rightly vets don't want over use for mild cases.
 

MrA.G.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
There is evidence in certain cases that adult rumen fluke suppresses performance and the oxyclozanide (levafas or zanil) kills both mature and immature rumen fluke, but it doesn't kill immature liver fluke.
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
There is evidence in certain cases that adult rumen fluke suppresses performance

What evidence from the UK? I thought I was up to date on the parasite, and I have looked today for such information. I want some sort of study or trial not an anecdotal report.

the oxyclozanide (levafas or zanil) kills both mature and immature rumen fluke,

It absolutely is not an effective killer of immature rumen fluke (although if you want to be pedantic it does kill a small number of them). It is very dangerous suggesting that the product is effective in this way.

If we rush around treating for this when we don't need to then we will get resistance to the product and then there is nothing we can do.
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
What evidence from the UK? I thought I was up to date on the parasite, and I have looked today for such information. I want some sort of study or trial not an anecdotal report.



It absolutely is not an effective killer of immature rumen fluke (although if you want to be pedantic it does kill a small number of them). It is very dangerous suggesting that the product is effective in this way.

If we rush around treating for this when we don't need to then we will get resistance to the product and then there is nothing we can do.
My vets advice- Treat for Para on housing , then treat at a later date for Fluke .
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
That's fine in France. In the other thread I was very clear to suggest dealing with the parasite in an appropriate way in your country.

That would be the wrong advice in the UK. Following it isn't even as simple as harm free - genuine damage could be done by inducing resistance in the parasite.
 

MrA.G.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
What evidence from the UK? I thought I was up to date on the parasite, and I have looked today for such information. I want some sort of study or trial not an anecdotal report.



It absolutely is not an effective killer of immature rumen fluke (although if you want to be pedantic it does kill a small number of them). It is very dangerous suggesting that the product is effective in this way.

If we rush around treating for this when we don't need to then we will get resistance to the product and then there is nothing we can do.
I don't know if there has been any trials carried out, I'll have a search, but quite often on farm experience is as good.

I am not being pedantic, I shot 5or 6 calves out of a batch if 40 in 2 days which had severe immature rumen fluke. I could either shoot them all or treat with the only active ingredient which would help, what would you do.

Reread my post near the top of this page which clearly says vets are right to limit its use as it is the only active ingredient!
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
I don't know if there has been any trials carried out, I'll have a search, but quite often on farm experience is as good.

Individual experience is never as good. Ever. It's filled with bias and other factors clouding the outcome. If you told me to dosed half the calves, weighed them monthly and by a year old were 25% heavier then I'll listen.

I am not being pedantic, I shot 5or 6 calves out of a batch if 40 in 2 days which had severe immature rumen fluke. I could either shoot them all or treat with the only active ingredient which would help, what would you do.

Difficult situation. I probably would treat in that situation, but in future that pasture needs to be kept free of younger susceptible stock.

There is some anecdotal evidence that treating sheep dying from acute liver fluke doesn't alter the course of the disease. A similar number die acutely whether you go through and treat the flock or not. It is quite possible that the drug you used did nothing and the badly affected animals were going to die anyway, and the less affected animals were going to survive anyway.

This is why whatever we do on farm is crap evidence - we have nothing to compare it to.

(I'm not saying it didn't help, but you can't say it did!)
 

le bon paysan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Limousin, France
That's fine in France. In the other thread I was very clear to suggest dealing with the parasite in an appropriate way in your country.

That would be the wrong advice in the UK. Following it isn't even as simple as harm free - genuine damage could be done by inducing resistance in the parasite.
I fully agree and wasn't suggesting that it is appropriate action for the UK . I was just trying to point out that it can become a major parasite, especially if the climate becomes warmer.
One thing to bear in mind is the number of cattle imported into the UK from here, Dairy heifers, Lims and Salers. I know they are quarantined , but it's possible to buy in resistance.
 

aangus

Member
Location
cumbria
There is no doubt that rumen fluke is out there. There is no evidence that it causes any harm as adults, and there is nothing that kills the immature form. Not a straightforward situation - but the current UK advice is should be no need to treat for it.

Chances are the people who saw an improvement was for some other reason (possibly real liver fluke).

rubbish
 

MrA.G.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Northern Ireland
Individual experience is never as good. Ever. It's filled with bias and other factors clouding the outcome. If you told me to dosed half the calves, weighed them monthly and by a year old were 25% heavier then I'll listen.



Difficult situation. I probably would treat in that situation, but in future that pasture needs to be kept free of younger susceptible stock.

There is some anecdotal evidence that treating sheep dying from acute liver fluke doesn't alter the course of the disease. A similar number die acutely whether you go through and treat the flock or not. It is quite possible that the drug you used did nothing and the badly affected animals were going to die anyway, and the less affected animals were going to survive anyway.

This is why whatever we do on farm is crap evidence - we have nothing to compare it to.

(I'm not saying it didn't help, but you can't say it did!)

I'm pretty sure I can say it helped, I shot the first calf after it went off it's feet and the vets were out off ideas. Previous to this when the calf was dull and loose a dung sample tested clear for worms, mature liver fluke and mature rumen fluke. A post mortem confirmed a massive burden of immature rumen fluke. Whilst waiting for the results several more calves went down. They were treated ASAP and the dose killed the dullest one and everything else improved.

In the absence of any trials which have proper controls I am more than content to use my own on farm research, as it is suited to our farms climate, soil type, management and grassland management.

I totally agree with you that we all need to be careful about the use of limited drugs, but it is hardly irresponsible of me to treat something that needs addressed. Since our outbreak we have targeted and limited the use of oxyclozandie.

As a genuine question, where do you read or why do you think that oxyclozanide doesn't kill or kills very few immature rumen fluke? Everywhere I read suggests it does.
http://www.animalhealthireland.ie/ckfinder/userfiles/files/Rumen Fluke 6pp 25_8_11.pdf
http://www.fieldscience.co.uk/rumen_fluke.html
 

Fermanagh

Member
Location
Fermanagh
I believe that it is more of a problem as ivermectins have become cheaper, nobody is using drenches like levafas except for rumen fluke , also zanil was not available for a period of time .
I routinely use levafas at housing having had good results in the past
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
Interesting re the killing of immature. My textbook references ~60% efficacy against immature. Some studies published suggest much higher or double dosing with the oxyclosanide or re-treating a few days later (all off licence). Most of the published work seems to suggest higher dose rates or short period re-treatment. There is also many papers that refer to 'immature' without giving an age statement.

With liver fluke a 5 week old fluke and a 7 week old fluke are both immature. You can kill one with closantel and not the other. Define the efficacy of closantel in immature fluke. I suspect this is the reason for the variations.
 

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