Rumours

[sc4545]

http://news.agcocorp.com/news/agco-...uisition-of-the-forage-division-of-lely-group

A few days late, but never mind. What the heck they gain apart from balers is beyond me. They've now got two manufacturers of mowers, tedders and rakes in the same stable. Perhaps they will keep the brands separate with their existing dealers, apart from the balers of course. Kubota have gained control of their existing baler supplier, Galignani, which are intertwined with Kv which is now owned by Kubota.

They do 'take out' a competitor of course.

Ye Friday was the day it was supposed to be announced...

 

[db9go]

http://news.agcocorp.com/news/agco-...uisition-of-the-forage-division-of-lely-group

A few days late, but never mind. What the heck they gain apart from balers is beyond me. They've now got two manufacturers of mowers, tedders and rakes in the same stable. Perhaps they will keep the brands separate with their existing dealers, apart from the balers of course. Kubota have gained control of their existing baler supplier, Galignani, which are intertwined with Kv which is now owned by Kubota.

They do 'take out' a competitor of course.

I am told they have not got the milking machines side

 

[itsalwaysme]

I respectfully reckon you're wrong there, Martin. Fiat does own Chrysler, as you say, but I'm pretty sure it holds no interest in GM if you look at the relevant websites. And although the Agnelli (Fiat) family's holding company Exor owns the largest shareholding in CNHi, it is only just over a quarter of the shares, so technically Fiat is not the owner of CNHi, just the majority shareholder. The Fiat Chrysler Automobiles group is a totally separate entity, as Fiat demerged its two industrial (trucks/construction/ag) interests when it spun off its Fiat Industrial and CNH Global businesses to form CNH Industrial.

There is a connection with Fiat and GM on the engines, something like GM powerline or powertrain, they have a share of some of the Fiat engines, Fiat engines have been used for a few years in some Vauxhalls
(there was talk of a merger with Fiat a few years ago)

 

[Jim B]

http://news.agcocorp.com/news/agco-...uisition-of-the-forage-division-of-lely-group

A few days late, but never mind. What the heck they gain apart from balers is beyond me. They've now got two manufacturers of mowers, tedders and rakes in the same stable. Perhaps they will keep the brands separate with their existing dealers, apart from the balers of course. Kubota have gained control of their existing baler supplier, Galignani, which are intertwined with Kv which is now owned by Kubota.

They do 'take out' a competitor of course.

Agree. Forage wagons too?

I read the Lely mower, tedder and rake factory will run down then close in 2018?

 

[itsalwaysme]

Vivaro vans made in the UK are a great success. Astra is surplus to requirements to an extent, with 70% of its components imported and 80 of assembled vehicles exported, so I suspect that once the current model comes to the end of its life cycle, the factory will probably close and more use made of the surplus factory capacity in France and Germany. Its just good business when massive savings in production efficiency and reduction in surplus capacity is essential.
The Mokka and other vehicles come from Korea and will probably be kept by GM and revert to using the Chevrolet brand in the fullness of time. Doubt whether PSA will wish to continue marketing them for too long.

I'm not sure if you could say Vivaro vans are a great sucess for Vauxhall (GM) they are only rebadged Renault Traffic's.
The Astra is the 4th top best selling car in the uk in 2017 so hardly surplus to requirements. In fact the Astra and Corsa are often both in the top 10 best selling cars

 

[Cowabunga]

Agree. Forage wagons too?

I read the Lely mower, tedder and rake factory will run down then close in 2018?

There's the Storm [Mengele] trailed forager too. Lely did invest in improving an already good machine. Trouble is that it is out of time and self propelled rules the roost now.
All they really wanted was the baler range and to shut down the rest I guess. Although they may well evaluate which range of mowers tedders and rakes gives the best chance of increasing market share and profit margins. It wouldn't be a big job to switch the Fella factory to build Lely designs if that was thought prudent. Fella and Lely make their own mower beds and that particular duality certainly isn't going to continue.

 

[Pheasant Surprise]

http://news.agcocorp.com/news/agco-...uisition-of-the-forage-division-of-lely-group

A few days late, but never mind. What the heck they gain apart from balers is beyond me. They've now got two manufacturers of mowers, tedders and rakes in the same stable. Perhaps they will keep the brands separate with their existing dealers, apart from the balers of course. Kubota have gained control of their existing baler supplier, Galignani, which are intertwined with Kv which is now owned by Kubota.

They do 'take out' a competitor of course.

Indeed what do they gain its bizarre. It's a face off with Kubota surely.

 

[Jim B]

More interestingly with tractor manufacturers buying up machinery manufacturers where does leave the currently "unbought" independent ones. Surely they are worried that all the bigger dealers with tractor franchises will be "full line", only selling that brand of machinery, leaving less and less opportunity for them...?

 

[Cowabunga]

I'm not sure if you could say Vivaro vans are a great sucess for Vauxhall (GM) they are only rebadged Renault Traffic's.
The Astra is the 4th top best selling car in the uk in 2017 so hardly surplus to requirements. In fact the Astra and Corsa are often both in the top 10 best selling cars

As I said, a huge proportion of the Astra components are imported and some 80% of cars assembled from those components are then exported back to the continent. That makes no sense when there is surplus capacity on the continent to assemble them, all without the Brexit uncertainty. It is due to be replaced with a new model in two year's time and this requires a very substantial capital investment in the UK factory.


The Vivaro is not due to be replaced with a new model for up to four years after the Astra is due to be replaced.

 

[Cowabunga]

Indeed what do they gain its bizarre. It's a face off with Kubota surely.

It is unlikely that they would continue to buy round balers off a subsidiary of Kubota, especially since they were, in my humble opinion, second rate products anyway.
As you know, this is no surprise to me, but why go to the expense just for balers that were great ten to fifteen years ago when they were known as Welger? They will never make a dent in McHale sales or even in Kuhn sales and nobody trusts AGCO to continue to invest and support implements long term. They just don't. Since the early 1980's they have chopped and changed implements at the drop of a hat, especially balers.

Would it not be far more productive to cut their margins on tractors to make them more competitive in order to keep their primary product's factory running at near full capacity than play around with inevitably slow selling balers? Just asking.

 

[Cowabunga]

More interestingly with tractor manufacturers buying up machinery manufacturers where does leave the currently "unbought" independent ones. Surely they are worried that all the bigger dealers with tractor franchises will be "full line", only selling that brand of machinery, leaving less and less opportunity for them...?

Yes, it is a problem for all independent implement companies. Even massive ones like Kuhn and indeed McHale. As more and more tractor companies become full line [once more!] the independents will feel the squeeze as dealers will be squeezed by the full line brand to dump them, or at least be given targets which eat substantially into the independent's market share.

Claas saw this coming and actually bought a tractor company. Not many implement companies have the clout and resources to pull that one off. I feel that Kuhn will come under pressure eventually and could well cozy up with a tractor brand. The best synergy would seem to be with John Deere, which already market some Kuhn products. Krone are another huge company, although they are more diversified than most others, which relieves pressure in the medium term.
So what tractor companies want to, and can afford to go full line through acquisition? Or further acquisition? Which tractor companies are for sale, if any?

Time will tell, but you can bet there will be more changes over the next couple of years.

 

[Andrew]

There's the Storm [Mengele] trailed forager too. Lely did invest in improving an already good machine. Trouble is that it is out of time and self propelled rules the roost now.
All they really wanted was the baler range and to shut down the rest I guess. Although they may well evaluate which range of mowers tedders and rakes gives the best chance of increasing market share and profit margins. It wouldn't be a big job to switch the Fella factory to build Lely designs if that was thought prudent. Fella and Lely make their own mower beds and that particular duality certainly isn't going to continue.

I certainly won't mourn the loss of Lely mowers but I hope they keep the tedder line going.

 

[marco]

agco would be better off dumping their own (fella) rakes and tedders for the lely versions

 

[Drillman]

agco would be better off dumping their own (fella) rakes and tedders for the lely versions

Maybe the penny has dropped and that's what there doing.

 

[Jim B]

Yes, it is a problem for all independent implement companies. Even massive ones like Kuhn and indeed McHale. As more and more tractor companies become full line [once more!] the independents will feel the squeeze as dealers will be squeezed by the full line brand to dump them, or at least be given targets which eat substantially into the independent's market share.

Claas saw this coming and actually bought a tractor company. Not many implement companies have the clout and resources to pull that one off. I feel that Kuhn will come under pressure eventually and could well cozy up with a tractor brand. The best synergy would seem to be with John Deere, which already market some Kuhn products. Krone are another huge company, although they are more diversified than most others, which relieves pressure in the medium term.
So what tractor companies want to, and can afford to go full line through acquisition? Or further acquisition? Which tractor companies are for sale, if any?

Time will tell, but you can bet there will be more changes over the next couple of years.

I think JD will be next tractor manufacturer to make a move, as you say, and I've said in the past; Kuhn would be a likely candidate. JD are now the only major player without making moves towards a full line; only a limited range of sprayers, balers and mowers IIRC.

 

[marco]

john deere to buy mchale, you heard it here first

 

[hintonroadhero]

It is unlikely that they would continue to buy round balers off a subsidiary of Kubota, especially since they were, in my humble opinion, second rate products anyway.
As you know, this is no surprise to me, but why go to the expense just for balers that were great ten to fifteen years ago when they were known as Welger? They will never make a dent in McHale sales or even in Kuhn sales and nobody trusts AGCO to continue to invest and support implements long term. They just don't. Since the early 1980's they have chopped and changed implements at the drop of a hat, especially balers.

Would it not be far more productive to cut their margins on tractors to make them more competitive in order to keep their primary product's factory running at near full capacity than play around with inevitably slow selling balers? Just asking.

I think you need to broaden your horizons beyond the UK.......While variable chamber belt balers are not particularly suited to UK grassland situations, in the rest of the World, and particularly in drier climates, variable belts will outsell fixed chamber machines by at least 6 to1. The Lely RP 160 is a particularly good machines in terms of performance and bale quality, as is the Tornado wrapping system. Add to that the Tigo loader wagon ranges and it looks like quite a useful portfolio?.....looking at the mower/tedder/swather ranges there is obviously some duplicity with the Fella products, so there is likely to be some rationalisation. Having said that, some commentators are suggesting there might be a case for selling the Fella product as a standard range, and the Lely machines rebranded as Fendt, particularly in high value markets... time will tell

 

[Cowabunga]

I think you need to broaden your horizons beyond the UK.......While variable chamber belt balers are not particularly suited to UK grassland situations, in the rest of the World, and particularly in drier climates, variable belts will outsell fixed chamber machines by at least 6 to1. The Lely RP 160 is a particularly good machines in terms of performance and bale quality, as is the Tornado wrapping system. Add to that the Tigo loader wagon ranges and it looks like quite a useful portfolio?.....looking at the mower/tedder/swather ranges there is obviously some duplicity with the Fella products, so there is likely to be some rationalisation. Having said that, some commentators are suggesting there might be a case for selling the Fella product as a standard range, and the Lely machines rebranded as Fendt, particularly in high value markets... time will tell

Lely has some strong and market leading products. Their balers are consistently one of the best selling round balers, I know. In that situation it seems unlikely that AGCO will help increase that market share. Not impossible, but from their history since the 1980's with implements including various balers, I venture it to be unlikely. I'd love it for them to prove me wrong.

The wagons are also strong in their market but again is AGCO going to have the motivated sales and backup that such machines and their dealers require? Again I would be surprised if they did and even more surprised if they kept it up over a period of years. They tend to let things slip and then buy another implement company. This leopard may change its spots this time, as there is more at stake I think, but I'm not putting money on it. They have a lot of history in this regard.

I would say 'best of luck' to them, but its not luck they need. They need strong management with a clear vision of what they want to achieve and how they wish to develop the sector. Plus a prosperous farming sector full of confidence would help everyone.

 

[David.]

It's late and I cant be bothered to read 20 pages, but has the foretold cataclysmic event happened yet?

 

[Drillman]

It's late and I cant be bothered to read 20 pages, but has the foretold cataclysmic event happened yet?

Apparently yes.

it seems that a company that makes devices for cutting, stirring and collecting grass clippings has been bought by a company that makes several brands of shiny tractors.

But don't worry cos the sky hasn't fallen in