Russia/China

[glasshouse]

The UK is open for business to more or less anyone, thank goodness for that!
In the case of Russians buying property and investing money in London, that has to be a particularly good thing as I bet some of Putin's own loot has ended up there so he's hardly likely to blow that up.
When the sirens go probably best to hide in the lobby of a City bank.

What about the money laundering regs?
We cant pay with cash foranything, the Russians get off with it.

 

[stewart]

I think you will find that Russia is very different

Possibly. Never been so I will reserve judgement on it until then. Most things I had heard about China were fairly inaccurate.

 

[stewart]

No one can deny that China’s turnaround has been a miracle, however it has been at a huge human cost. I recomend reading Wild Swans

I wouldn't call it a miracle, if infrastructure is needed they get on with it and put it in place, the Chinese are also prepared to work, as are most Asian nations and people.
Thanks for the recommendation "Wild Swans" have just ordered this and look forward to reading it.

 

[FonterraFarmer]

Number 2 Daughter is in Shanghai working this week,
Can’t see anything due to smog, like it most days, by all accounts.
Hardly environmental friendly.

Any different to London 70 odd years ago?

 

[Exfarmer]

Any different to London 70 odd years ago?

But London only suffered it a few days of the year, a lot of Chinese cities seem to be smoggy 24/7

 

[ollie989898]

But London only suffered it a few days of the year, a lot of Chinese cities seem to be smoggy 24/7

And they know it and will take steps to sort it.

London and half of the major population centres in Britain used to be black with coal dust all year round!

 

[ollie989898]

Selective points in History, you have neglected to mention Lord Semphill, a traitor if ever there was one, should have been charged with treason but as he was a member of the aristocracy nothing was done, how many other members of the hierarchy also had links to the enemy?

It is possible British intelligence were on to the chap quite early and were carefully allowing him to continue but only passing on information they knew was of limited value to the enemy. When you detect an agent working for a foreign power, it is vital you don't disappear him all of a sudden or it arises suspicion. Better to keep him tame and let him feed on what you dictate or permit. The bulk of enemy agents were turned during the war and used to great effect.

Agent Zig-Zag is a classic example.

 

[Redlands Okie]

Keep in mind many of the business and practices of the Chinese benefits the country and those at the top. The country owns or controls most of the business so to speak. They are a military threat, it just has not been used a lot. But thats changing, look at the china sea and their use of force in the area. Also their investing a lot of money into the military, and it would seem to be unlikely they would invest that money into something they do not intend to use. They just are smart about it and use politics, trading practices, and cash to influence what they want.

China seems to be perfectly willing to invest huge amounts of money into projects and systems that will take decades to break even on or to make a profit. But this provides them a overall ability to make even more money and have more influence as time goes on. Their looking at the long term.

Many of the issues by Europe and USA are caused by corporations and politicians looking for short term profits in the next few years or election at most. Not looking at rewards provided decades from now.

In the overall picture Russia is just a childish bully hollering, kicking and stomping around making those around them uncomfortable.

 

[graham99]

It is worrying that some people defend China and Russia; we all know the types, they are the ones who say things such as 'Oh, we're not perfect either you know...' which is, of course true. But it is absurd to equate those two and others with our Western countries which are democracies, however imperfect, and have rule of law with a clear and definite separation between the Judiciary and Government.

Russia is a virtually open oligarchy, China is a dictatorship - now with a dictator for life; neither has any scruples or history of respecting international law. But they are not in the strong position that many suppose; both have governments that are maintained by suppression of their own people, and both are very scared of their own people.

I wouldn't suggest that we'll see both regimes tumble in the very near future but, if there is a major trade war, these wo will only survive it by becoming more oppressive, and that is a spiral which will only, eventually, lead to their downfall. In the short term there will be a lot of money made by speculators and producers of essentials.

Nothing lasts forever, everything changes; the question is, what will democratic and open Russia and China be like? Maybe more friendly than now, maybe more economically concerning.

so if china said stock your on shops and russia find your own gas ,
what would happen.
what i think would happen is russia and china would just trade with other.

 

[graham99]

Ok, this is insane.

Russia is a clear military aggressor having invaded 2 countries in the wider european region in the last 10 years, they're enabling the senseless slaughter of hundreds of thousands in Syria, and they are an absolute dictatorship. The only credible opposition was barred from running in Putin's 'election'. There is no free press in Russia, state owned media supports the Kremlin, and the intelligence services crack down on political opposition. They are clearly a dangerous mafia state that will do anything to protect the interests of the few at the top. How can you not see this?

China s a different beast. It isn't a military threat, they're not revisionist, and they engage more positively in the global system. The West isn't scared of 'one belt, one road', which opens trade opportunities. Europeans, including the UK, are quite positive about China. But it isn't always an easy relationship. What we are less positive about are their human rights abuses, their IPR infringements, and trade distorting 'dumping' of products.

P.s. everyone knows the role the USSR played in defeating the Nazis, it isn't a surprise to anyone and doesn't forgive them their current military aggression.

so how do explain the USA which was formed the war with you guy's .
who then went on to have a war with it self as there were no other takers.
then have been invading countrys none stop since
the US can not surivie with out war

 

[Danllan]

so if china said stock your on shops and russia find your own gas ,
what would happen.
what i think would happen is russia and china would just trade with other.

Firstly, not being entirely daft, the UK is not reliant on Russian gas. Secondly, in a market economy do you really think that the shelves won't be filled from elsewhere - even with the pointless and unnecessary rubbish which constitutes most of what is there. (The shelves weren't empty before China started sending is stuff)

Not sure whether your last line is meant to end with 'each other' or other countries'. The former would see Russian home markets die and Russia become extremely protectionist in an effort to survive. The latter, so what?

 

[SRRC]

Oil and gas isn't the strategic power play that it used to be. A combination of the development of alternatives and the USA becoming self sufficient has kicked away at least one leg of that stool. That's why the Saudis are trying to rejig their economy away from total reliance on oil and gas.
Putin's Russia has pretty much no forward strategy beyond his immediate survival, that's the big downside of dictators who come to think they are immortal.

 

[ollie989898]

so if china said stock your on shops and russia find your own gas ,
what would happen.
what i think would happen is russia and china would just trade with other.

If Russia wouldnt supply gas someone would.

China are not the only game in town either. One day they will have expensive labour and Pakistan or someone will take up the mantlet.

 

[Sussex Martin]

so if china said stock your on shops and russia find your own gas ,
what would happen.
what i think would happen is russia and china would just trade with other.

India is the new China and will become the supplier of choice in the future, China doesn't have the sole rights on producing crap plastic.
Russia and China dislike each other with a passion, I can't see those two making a pact anytime soon.
China wants to trade, they just can't keep within the rules but they will learn.

 

[little_p]

It is certainly not the backward country that many portray it as. The Maglev train from Shanghai Airport into the city, Bullet train Shanghai to Beijing travelling at 350kmh, Bullet train from Xi'an to Chengdu is a little slower at only 250kmh, but considering in goes through mountains, over rivers and the 600 odd kilometres was built in 5 years in isn't too bad.

The city and countryside was very tidy and clean and looks to be well farmed, looking at fruit and veg in the markets and back street shops they can grow crops, the quality would be way above anything I have seen in the UK and NZ, meat was a different matter and would be dubious about eating some of it, if you are partial to rabbit heads, ducks bills, toads and eels then it may not be too bad, bit like eating tripe I suppose, but personally I would give it a miss.

There is an opportunity for some UK exports though, from what we saw this would be at the high end of the market, Range Rovers, Jaguars and Bentleys, although the Germans and French seem to have cornered the market for European cars.

Just come back from there myself, like you couldn't believe some of what I was seeing. Construction on unbelievable grand scale. Middle-class wealth equivalent to most Western cities. Fruit and veg (particularly in Xi'an) that the most discerning Western buyer would be delighted with. And their general ability to get things done in all aspects of their lives and business.

I didn't see many UK exports over there, apart from, like you say Range Rovers, Bentleys and Burberry. Although they do seem to like the Union Jack for some reason. What I didn't see (I don't want to turn this into a Brexit debate) is any real possibilities for meat - in particular - lamb exports to the country. They don't seem to eat it or even know what it is and when they did, they seemed to think that it was mutton. Even if you got them to buy meat, what is stop the copying little b*stards just labeling it as Welsh or New Zealand lamb?

 

[JP1]

The environmental cost is largely acceptable to drive the country forward, from what I saw they are doing their best to keep this to a minimum, plenty of electric vehicles around, trucks kept out of the centre of the city etc, how do you view something like the 3 gorges dam, is this an environmental cost or an environmental improvement?

Certainly not true in the Guangzhou manufacturing area. All the trees are white. When you ask about pollution controls they just laugh. The environment and individual human rights continue to be over-ridden in the race to achieve massive leaps in advancement in their own industrial revolution

 

[Exfarmer]

I rather suspect much of industrialised China mirrors what our own industrial revolution did to many parts of the country here. Of course the big difference is the scale. Our countryside has mainly recovered but the term Black Country still remains

 

[phillipe]

so if china said stock your on shops and russia find your own gas ,
what would happen.
what i think would happen is russia and china would just trade with other.

No probs ,somebody else would fill the gap in the shops ,and we get very little gas from russia.we export plenty to both