SAD REALITY OF LIVESTOCK FARMING ?

[bluebell]

ive done it before, having to ask questions on here about the health or wellbeing of an animal, in an ideal world maybe the one that is portrayed on the TV programme the yorkshire vet, you call the vet out anytime somethings not quite right and you cant do your self, but the grime reality is the cost of the vet? im not saying that whatever the vet changes for having to comeout day or night in less than ideal conditions is not worth it, its that the poor profit margin has been continually eroded and not kept pace with their costs? same as the knacker man costs, when i first started you were paid a small amount for the animal, then it got that they did you a faviour for taking it for nothing, now you have to pay alot to get rid of it, im talking about cattle ?

 

[JP1]

ive done it before, having to ask questions on here about the health or wellbeing of an animal, in an ideal world maybe the one that is portrayed on the TV programme the yorkshire vet, you call the vet out anytime somethings not quite right and you cant do your self, but the grime reality is the cost of the vet? im not saying that whatever the vet changes for having to comeout day or night in less than ideal conditions is not worth it, its that the poor profit margin has been continually eroded and not kept pace with their costs? same as the knacker man costs, when i first started you were paid a small amount for the animal, then it got that they did you a faviour for taking it for nothing, now you have to pay alot to get rid of it, im talking about cattle ?

Often the cost for the animal exceeds the value or the marginal improvement but you have to do right by the animal, always and before self

That is what sets us apart as BRITISH livestock farmers and needs hammering home with vegan trolls, trade negotiation wallers and the general public. My every decision is made for what is right for the animal - and that will be the same with my dogs in future , I will not prolong their lifespan propped up with too much veterinary intervention

 

[Al R]

Often the cost for the animal exceeds the value or the marginal improvement but you have to do right by the animal, always and before self

That is what sets us apart as BRITISH livestock farmers and needs hammering home with vegan trolls, trade negotiation wallers and the general public. My every decision is made for what is right for the animal - and that will be the same with my dogs in future , I will not prolong their lifespan propped up with too much veterinary intervention

I think it was far more humane and kind to put an animal to sleep that had a severe injury/illness than prolonging it and trying to get it better because the knackermen charge £19.50 per ewe, when people had burial pits they wouldn’t try and Keep an animal going if it was unwell and had little hope they would end any suffering there and then but now it seem‘s some people prolong it and trying to get an animal to live longer because of they want to or the knackerman charge is damn right cruel/insane.
I’d prefer to have a clean conscious and know that an animal has suffered for as short a period of time as possible.
The old saying “you wouldn’t keep a dog like that” the general public are worse than anyone and they will keep a dog/pet alive through vet/meds often for years more than what the animal should have lived if things were natural, humans the same though, modern science has allowed us to live longer.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

There is no doubt that knacker costs and the difficulties of getting casualty animals killed in an abattoir has meant many animals are kept alive on farm for far too long. In many ways I blame the Vets for not being more sensible about allowing casualty animals to travel. Often abattoir vets are more understanding.
I saw a steer on a farm recently that had injured its leg and even though it would put weight on all legs the Vet would not sanction it going 15 miles to the nearest abattoir. So the farmer had to fork out £150 to have it killed and taken away from the farm.

 

[Northern territory]

I think it was far more humane and kind to put an animal to sleep that had a severe injury/illness than prolonging it and trying to get it better because the knackermen charge £19.50 per ewe, when people had burial pits they wouldn’t try and Keep an animal going if it was unwell and had little hope they would end any suffering there and then but now it seem‘s some people prolong it and trying to get an animal to live longer because of they want to or the knackerman charge is damn right cruel/insane.
I’d prefer to have a clean conscious and know that an animal has suffered for as short a period of time as possible.
The old saying “you wouldn’t keep a dog like that” the general public are worse than anyone and they will keep a dog/pet alive through vet/meds often for years more than what the animal should have lived if things were natural, humans the same though, modern science has allowed us to live longer.

This is the harsh truth. Modern medicine in a lot of ways hasn’t done any favours. Knacker costs are getting more and more which isn’t great. People go on about cutting costs but things like this just go up and up. We rarely use a vet, certainly not for sheep. Cattle occasionally but only fattening. Everything vaccinated on arrival and touch wood we do well for mortality. Sheep a different story.

 

[gone up the hill]

There is no doubt that knacker costs and the difficulties of getting casualty animals killed in an abattoir has meant many animals are kept alive on farm for far too long. In many ways I blame the Vets for not being more sensible about allowing casualty animals to travel. Often abattoir vets are more understanding.
I saw a steer on a farm recently that had injured its leg and even though it would put weight on all legs the Vet would not sanction it going 15 miles to the nearest abattoir. So the farmer had to fork out £150 to have it killed and taken away from the farm.

If the animal is putting weight on all 4 feet you do NOT need the vets permission to send it to the abattoir.

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

If the animal is putting weight on all 4 feet you do NOT need the vets permission to send it to the abattoir.

Yes but if the Vet looking after the stock on the farm won't agree to it travelling and then you get to the abattoir and the vet there won't accept it the buck and a great pile of Sh*t ends up on the owners plate plus a lot of additional cost.
The old Vets were fine and understood the welfare of the animals, these new ones are completely risk averse for the wrong reasons.

 

[gone up the hill]

Yes but if the Vet looking after the stock on the farm won't agree to it travelling and then you get to the abattoir and the vet there won't accept it the buck and a great pile of Sh*t ends up on the owners plate plus a lot of additional cost.
The old Vets were fine and understood the welfare of the animals, these new ones are completely risk averse for the wrong reasons.

A good stockperson will know and be just as qualified as the new young vets that always say no about these animals travelling!

I have sent animals the vets refused to say were okay to travel and as long as the abattoir vet knows they are coming and they are stood up on arrival and well bedded in the trailer in their own compartment there has never been a problem.

 

[Raider112]

Yes but if the Vet looking after the stock on the farm won't agree to it travelling and then you get to the abattoir and the vet there won't accept it the buck and a great pile of Sh*t ends up on the owners plate plus a lot of additional cost.
The old Vets were fine and understood the welfare of the animals, these new ones are completely risk averse for the wrong reasons.

Some vets (ours) won't give out a certificate, you're on your own and it's down to the vet at the abattoir's opinion, they are less likely to overrule another vet but a farmer going on his own opinion stands the risk of getting into serious trouble when a short trip to the abattoir would be best all round.

 

[Cripper]

Generally in my experience abattoirs will have an official/unofficial agent who will look problem stock (lame cows)before you send them. You are a price taker for these type of animals but basically if they can walk onto their wagon it’s ok

 

[Rod Dumbreck]

I went to an abattoir for a course, hoof to hook, and none of the drovers in the lairage were walking evenly

 

[Longlowdog]

Whilst vets have to have a degree of accommodation in dealing with owners it should not be forgotten that they are there to serve animals. If the best interest of the animal is served by saying no then they are doing what is right by the code they live by. Farm profits or loss are not their concern. Vet costs are not a price per animal cost but a whole of enterprise expense spread over all the heads. Furthermore as @JP1 stated above it is beholden upon those of us who wish to trade under the banner of 'the highest welfare standards' to strive constantly to better them not short circuit them to the detriment of those standards and certainly not if lowering standards provides ammunition to those who would oppose us. Animal welfare first, financial consequences second would have to be the right and only way forward. If the cost of treatment exceeds the production value of the animal we have the option of culling and disposal but that is cutting ones loses while remaining humane and has clearly understood costs as well. Vet and knackery bills should be as regularly anticipated and projected in to costings as feed and bedding. If those costs compromise the business viability then one would have to ask why are they so high that they threaten a business that would be profitable with these expenses.

 

[MRT]

The old Vets were fine and understood the welfare of the animals, these new ones are completely risk averse for the wrong reasons.

The old vets worked in an older world with different realities. Its not a young vets job to put thier name to stock to make a farmer a £ or to save thier boss having to do the same. A friend did the same and came close to serious hot water

 

[Danllan]

Whilst vets have to have a degree of accommodation in dealing with owners it should not be forgotten that they are there to serve animals. If the best interest of the animal is served by saying no then they are doing what is right by the code they live by. Farm profits or loss are not their concern...

The thing is... this just isn't a thing as consistent as it 'should' be. There is no way, no way at all that a huge number - possibly a majority - of small animal vets apply such a code to domestic pets, or anything approaching one like it. They cater to the owners' whims, not the animals' best interests.

And, anyway, if their professional ethics were so strongly held / adhered to, as a body they'd be up in arms about any number of things in agriculture. Starting with breeds that can't birth naturally...

 

[Sandpit Farm]

The thing is... this just isn't a thing as consistent as it 'should' be. There is no way, no way at all that a huge number - possibly a majority - of small animal vets apply such a code to domestic pets, or anything approaching one like it. They cater to the owners' whims, not the animals' best interests.

And, anyway, if their professional ethics were so strongly held / adhered to, as a body they'd be up in arms about any number of things in agriculture. Starting with breeds that can't birth naturally...

I find this whole sphere really interesting. The trouble is welfare is driven by both consumer perception and what is right for the animal. I feel that consumer perception shouldn't really come into it... but of course it has to doesn't it as we all have to sell our products to consumers when our industry is already being attacked by lobbyists.

There are milk contracts that have a measure based on % cows that die on farm. If you have less that die, you are seen as being a 'better' farmer. Better welfare right? Wrong!! The unintended consequence is that farmers with animals that 'could' end up needing to be put down get loaded up and taken to the abattoir to look better to the milk buyer. However, it would be much better from a true welfare point of view to provide pain relief and consider euthanising on farm.

Similarly, it is better welfare to graze cows isn't it? When the weather is good, consumers go outside and see happy cows grazing grass. When the weather is horrendous, the consumer is inside not seeing the grazing cows huddling under trees and struggling to consume dry matter.

My opinion is the same as others. You do what is right for the animal. It is a privilege and a responsibility we are given. It is difficult when you have a heavy vet cost some years but I think it is something that ought to be built into every business anyway. You just need to aim for less fire-fighting and more proactive and routine work.

 

[MRT]

Easy to blame the vet, sometimes its just sh!t luck (an animal breaks a leg or something) other times its the man in the mirror. The animal is old, or diseased, you kept it too long etc You chose the bull, you managed the cow - cost of c-section/need for help is on you. I've been both sides of the fence and don't blame them refusing to sign.