Sanderson 726 engine mounts

[Flat 10]

Anybody else had problems with bolts shearing/falling out on rear engine mounts of Perkins powered 726 sanderson?
Offside had only one loose bolt in when I happened to notice it. I managed to tighten it up and replace another so it has 2 (out of 4) in now but the others seem to have sheared off. Is it really an engine out job to extract them? Cos that looks like a massive PITA. Thanks

 

[ewald]

Had similar on our 625 - fitter managed to extract the 2 broken studs with engine in situ, one still comes loose periodically - something to keep an eye on

 

[Flat 10]

Had similar on our 625 - fitter managed to extract the 2 broken studs with engine in situ, one still comes loose periodically - something to keep an eye on

Any idea how he did it? Front ones seem tight. N/S rear mount has cracked and been welded prior to my ownership.

 

[Flat 10]

@ACEngineering come across this?

 

[ACEngineering]

@ACEngineering come across this?

Was a common sanderson thing! always doing them, I even used to have a template pre drilled which i used to make plates up to modify them! There are 2 types of mounting bracket under the rad, early type has 4 x M12 bolts in from each side of engine block and the later type has 4 x M16 bolts in from the front of the engine block.

(NOTE when i say front of engine that would be towards the rear of the sanderson as the engine technically is fitted in back wards)

Both types are crap! You will need to repair the bracket first, then fit it to the engine and make up steel plates to weld to the bracket so you can bolt it in using all 4 x M16 bolts and all 8 x M12 bolts, this is a cure and anything less is just wasting time.

You have the M16 bolted one so with all the rad and mounting bracket removed you will be able to get in with a drill and get them out, they are rarley tight on the threads unless some idot has been there and loctited them in

The last one i did one of the heads of the M16 bolts sheared off and rolled under the tin sump and the engine then sat down on it and rubbed a hole in the sump. That was an engine out job to weld the hole in the sump but i done loads of these back in the day with out removing the engine., Take all the rad out, both self leveling rams. get a bit of 10 or 12mm plate on edge up between the rear axle pivot block and the hydraulic tank, lay another bit of plate between it and the sump then jack it up to take the weight of engine.

Oh and you want it clean before tack welding any brackets in situ, I almost set fire to a couple and with all the oil and crap that gets under the engine its not easy to put out quickly!

Now towards the front end of the sanderson either side of the trany there is also a mounting bracket, these also like to shear the bolts off and sometimes sheer the bracket straight across the bolt holes too. The isnt really a cure of this just need good holes both in the gearbox and the mounting bracket and decent bolts.
If you cant get the broken bolt out of these by hand or a pick then you are generally looking at a gearbox out job as well (Gearbox and engine come out seperatly, engine out the back and gearbox either out on the floor or upwards taking care not to smash the cab side glass)

 

[Flat 10]

Was a common sanderson thing! always doing them, I even used to have a template pre drilled which i used to make plates up to modify them! There are 2 types of mounting bracket under the rad, early type has 4 x M12 bolts in from each side of engine block and the later type has 4 x M16 bolts in from the front of the engine block.

(NOTE when i say front of engine that would be towards the rear of the sanderson as the engine technically is fitted in back wards)

Both types are crap! You will need to repair the bracket first, then fit it to the engine and make up steel plates to weld to the bracket so you can bolt it in using all 4 x M16 bolts and all 8 x M12 bolts, this is a cure and anything less is just wasting time.

You have the M16 bolted one so with all the rad and mounting bracket removed you will be able to get in with a drill and get them out, they are rarley tight on the threads unless some idot has been there and loctited them in

The last one i did one of the heads of the M16 bolts sheared off and rolled under the tin sump and the engine then sat down on it and rubbed a hole in the sump. That was an engine out job to weld the hole in the sump but i done loads of these back in the day with out removing the engine., Take all the rad out, both self leveling rams. get a bit of 10 or 12mm plate on edge up between the rear axle pivot block and the hydraulic tank, lay another bit of plate between it and the sump then jack it up to take the weight of engine.

Oh and you want it clean before tack welding any brackets in situ, I almost set fire to a couple and with all the oil and crap that gets under the engine its not easy to put out quickly!

Now towards the front end of the sanderson either side of the trany there is also a mounting bracket, these also like to shear the bolts off and sometimes sheer the bracket straight across the bolt holes too. The isnt really a cure of this just need good holes both in the gearbox and the mounting bracket and decent bolts.
If you cant get the broken bolt out of these by hand or a pick then you are generally looking at a gearbox out job as well (Gearbox and engine come out seperatly, engine out the back and gearbox either out on the floor or upwards taking care not to smash the cab side glass)

Thanks for comprehensive reply, much appreciated. I have the 8 m12 bolts type in at the side.

 

[ACEngineering]

Thanks for comprehensive reply, much appreciated. I have the 8 m12 bolts type in at the side.

Oh right sorry thought it sounded like you had M16.

You Definitely need to pick up on the 4 x M16 bolts aswell.

 

[ewald]

Any idea how he did it? Front ones seem tight. N/S rear mount has cracked and been welded prior to my ownership.

Drill and screw extractor - quite a long job

 

[Flat 10]

Drill and screw extractor - quite a long job

I guess yours doesn't have the 8 bolts at the side of the block? Because I can't see how this can be done with the block in situ?

 

[ACEngineering]

I guess yours doesn't have the 8 bolts at the side of the block? Because I can't see how this can be done with the block in situ?

sharp centre punch and tap them round, or a pick. they are not normally tight unless loctited. With everything out of the way it should be possible to get a 90 deg drill in there with a left hand drill bit may spin them out.

I keep thinking about buying the milwaukee cordless 90 deg drill as its not that expensive even from screwfix! but i do have a cheap ass 90deg attachment that goes on a normal drill which i drilled some broken bolts out of a merc engine that was very awkward, its a cheap nasty tool but it did that one job fine.

DO NOT drill them out with a normal drill bit! the 2 holes closest to the front of the machine go right through in to the block so if the drill bit catches it will wind the broken bolt straight through and fall in the sump Thats why you must use a left handed drill bit Also watch the length of the new bolts you put in, too long and they will hit the crank shaft as it spins round

 

[Sharpy]

sharp centre punch and tap them round, or a pick. they are not normally tight unless loctited. With everything out of the way it should be possible to get a 90 deg drill in there with a left hand drill bit may spin them out.

I keep thinking about buying the milwaukee cordless 90 deg drill as its not that expensive even from screwfix! but i do have a cheap ass 90deg attachment that goes on a normal drill which i drilled some broken bolts out of a merc engine that was very awkward, its a cheap nasty tool but it did that one job fine.

DO NOT drill them out with a normal drill bit! the 2 holes closest to the front of the machine go right through in to the block so if the drill bit catches it will wind the broken bolt straight through and fall in the sump Thats why you must use a left handed drill bit Also watch the length of the new bolts you put in, too long and they will hit the crank shaft as it spins round

This thread is an education!

 

[Flat 10]

It is. @MF-ANDY

 

[Netherfield]

This thread is an education!

Even if you only learn what not to do.

 

[MF-ANDY]

It is. @MF-ANDY

You strip it and I'll drill them out

 

[ACEngineering]

You strip it and I'll drill them out

thats the 90 deg attachment i got.

 

[clbarclay]

Even if you only learn what not to do.

There is no better learning experience than mistakes.