Saving the planet

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
Quite a famous video that one I think. Well worth watching and it's a shame that it's not more widely watched by people who aren't already interested in livestock and holistic grazing that he promotes. There's plenty of anti Allan Savoury stuff about too but a lot of it comes across as vegans hating :rolleyes: he has been labelled a quack by some who don't understand what he is doing. I think he was deported from Australia once too. A lot of the anti savoury institute stuff focuses on his failures when he was still learning about grazing and what holistic planned grazing was. And there is a lot of mentioning of his elephant cull too which he freely admits was a massive mistake. But his movmment is slowly gaining momentum and support.
He really doesn't get the recognition he deserves. He has done more for areas of Africa than any western world charity has done or ever will by helping them to help themselves through the management of their livestock and land. And is doing more for climate change than most if not all scientists as well. They just seem to be fiddling with numbers for sponsorship not actually doing something about it :rolleyes:
The bit about desertification isn't really relevant to the UK as much as it is other parts of the world except maybe the south east of England @holwellcourtfarm ?
But we can pump a lot of carbon into our soils and increase the organic matter in them to keep our soils healthy and grow more grass cheaper than you would with fertilizer all while helping the environment by sequestering carbon. Even if your not convinced by or don't particularly care about climate change growing more grass in healthy soil sounds good to me :cool:
 
Good morning everyone. I've received an important email from Allan Savory yesterday, that I want to share with you. Please share his new blog far and wide. Many kind thanks. Sheila

Sheila,
I have just seen this report about thousands of German public demanding more sensible agriculture https://www.ecowatch.com/berlin-pro...ail&utm_term=0_49c7d43dc9-5589a89e2f-86089133
This makes me think it would be a good idea to get my recent blog to them somehow, and that made me think it could be useful if our various hubs translated it to their languages - Spanish, French, German, Swedish so will bounce the idea (this is the blog to which I refer https://bit.ly/2HjzXD2 ) I have already asked Jorgen if he can try to ensure it gets into the hands of Greta Thunberg.
When you are teaching the financial planning I think you know the single idea that has most immediate effect in increasing profit is that of planning it before costs, and thus forcing you to cut expenses because almost all in agriculture think profit comes from income when it doesn’t. It comes from cutting costs because income increases costs of production due to human nature.
Allan

Allan Savory
President, Savory Institute, Boulder, Colorado, USA.
Chairman, Africa Centre for Holistic Management, Zimbabwe
www: savory.global
www.africacentreforholisticmanagement.org
 

Y Fan Wen

Member
Location
N W Snowdonia
When you are teaching the financial planning I think you know the single idea that has most immediate effect in increasing profit is that of planning it before costs, and thus forcing you to cut expenses because almost all in agriculture think profit comes from income when it doesn’t. It comes from cutting costs because income increases costs of production due to human nature.
Allan

Allan Savory
Or, as it was put to me in college, 'If you don't spend it, you don't have to earn it'.
 

Agrivator

Member
How to reverse climate change with livestock!
Turns a lot of what we know on its head!
https://www.ted.com/talks/allan_sav...nd_reverse_climate_change/discussion#t-786433
That's marvellous. In the short question and answer session after his talk, he claimed that no matter how little vegetation there was on a particular grazing site, significantly increasing the numbers of animals did not cause any problems and it more or less turned what was a desert into productive grassland or herbage.
There was no mention of where all the additional animals came from or how he managed to impose his will on the local rural community.

I take what he says about increased herbage cover increasing the ability of soils to remove Carbon from the atmosphere, but ideally he should put much more emphasis on the New Zealand claim that Methane (CH4) production from cattle and sheep does not contribute to increased greenhouse gases.
The Methane is very quickly oxidised to Carbon Dioxide and water (CH4 +2 O2 = CO2 +2H2O. The resulting CO2 is absorbed by the grass and grazing by animals increases its productivity, and so the cycle continues and improves.

So next time anyone claims that your cows farting (actually their belching) causes global warming, explain that it doesn't.

,
 
Last edited:

hendrebc

Member
Livestock Farmer
That's marvellous. In the short question and answer session after his talk, he claimed that no matter how little vegetation there was on a particular grazing site, significantly increasing the numbers of animals did not cause any problems and it more or less turned what was a desert into productive grassland or herbage.
There was no mention of where all the additional animals came from or how he managed to impose his will on the local rural community.

I take what he says about increased herbage cover increasing the ability of soils to remove Carbon from the atmosphere, but ideally he should put much more emphasis on the New Zealand claim that Methane (CH4) production from cattle and sheep does not contribute to increased greenhouse gases.
The Methane is very quickly oxidised to Carbon Dioxide and water (CH4 +2 O2 = CO2 +2H2O. The resulting CO2 is absorbed by the grass and grazing by animals increases its productivity, and so the cycle continues and improves.

So next time anyone claims that your cows farting (actually their belching) is causing global warming, explain that it doesn't.

,
There are more videos online of him, or someone else from the savoury institute, explaining how it works in more detail and how the local people take to it being done.
I saw a great video a while ago about a village that was being helped by them. The village already had the cattle all owned by people who lived there. They just had someone come and manage them, or show them how to manage them, in this way and the results were dramatic as shown in this video. Another thing they did in that video was the cattle were all bought into one small paddock overnight so they could concentrate all the muck and urine in one place. After a while of all this extra fertility the paddock became a garden for the village and they were able to grow enough food there to feed everyone and have some to sell as well. It was great to see much better than anything Oxfam or the likes would do. @Sheila Cooke might know of this video or something similar? I don't know if I could find it again :oops:
 

Agrivator

Member
There are more videos online of him, or someone else from the savoury institute, explaining how it works in more detail and how the local people take to it being done.
I saw a great video a while ago about a village that was being helped by them. The village already had the cattle all owned by people who lived there. They just had someone come and manage them, or show them how to manage them, in this way and the results were dramatic as shown in this video. Another thing they did in that video was the cattle were all bought into one small paddock overnight so they could concentrate all the muck and urine in one place. After a while of all this extra fertility the paddock became a garden for the village and they were able to grow enough food there to feed everyone and have some to sell as well. It was great to see much better than anything Oxfam or the likes would do. @Sheila Cooke might know of this video or something similar? I don't know if I could find it again :oops:
Thanks for that. He did refer to it in the video I commented on.
 

Poorbuthappy

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Devon
Quite a famous video that one I think. Well worth watching and it's a shame that it's not more widely watched by people who aren't already interested in livestock and holistic grazing that he promotes. There's plenty of anti Allan Savoury stuff about too but a lot of it comes across as vegans hating :rolleyes: he has been labelled a quack by some who don't understand what he is doing. I think he was deported from Australia once too. A lot of the anti savoury institute stuff focuses on his failures when he was still learning about grazing and what holistic planned grazing was. And there is a lot of mentioning of his elephant cull too which he freely admits was a massive mistake. But his movmment is slowly gaining momentum and support.
He really doesn't get the recognition he deserves. He has done more for areas of Africa than any western world charity has done or ever will by helping them to help themselves through the management of their livestock and land. And is doing more for climate change than most if not all scientists as well. They just seem to be fiddling with numbers for sponsorship not actually doing something about it :rolleyes:
The bit about desertification isn't really relevant to the UK as much as it is other parts of the world except maybe the south east of England @holwellcourtfarm ?
But we can pump a lot of carbon into our soils and increase the organic matter in them to keep our soils healthy and grow more grass cheaper than you would with fertilizer all while helping the environment by sequestering carbon. Even if your not convinced by or don't particularly care about climate change growing more grass in healthy soil sounds good to me :cool:
Whilst you're quite right about the desertification bit not being particularly relevant in our climate, soils with increased carbon content have massively increased water absorption capabilities. (Gabe puts some figures to it somewhere in his book) In a dry climate this keeps moisture available for growing in a dry time (that would be beneficial even here in a summer like last) but also it means the soils hold many times more water in flood conditions, reducing runoff and therefore alleviating the issue of flooding we seem to get more trouble with in recent years. Also reduces soil erosion of course. It's win win in every climate it seems to me.
 

Kiwi Pete

Member
Livestock Farmer
Whilst you're quite right about the desertification bit not being particularly relevant in our climate, soils with increased carbon content have massively increased water absorption capabilities. (Gabe puts some figures to it somewhere in his book) In a dry climate this keeps moisture available for growing in a dry time (that would be beneficial even here in a summer like last) but also it means the soils hold many times more water in flood conditions, reducing runoff and therefore alleviating the issue of flooding we seem to get more trouble with in recent years. Also reduces soil erosion of course. It's win win in every climate it seems to me.
It may not look "desertified", due to rain.
But so many (in both our countries) just don't seem to be able to farm for very long unless the rain is recent, and the fert is cheap.

I think that's near enough to "unsustainability" to want to do better .

Also, on the subject of Savory, that's the issue with writing books; life is a journey, with continual learning - so any book you'd write would simply be what you knew at that point in time, if you're any good then it would be out of date before it went to print (y)
 

Inky

Member
Location
Essex / G.London
So next time anyone claims that your cows farting (actually their belching) causes global warming, explain that it doesn't.

It doesn't under holistic management / reg ag principles. The problem is, it's only a minority of farmers who practise in this way. The thread recently that was about spreading the benefits of grazing livestock to combat the vegan message was quite illuminating. Farmers understand the benefits that can come from grazing livestock which is good news, but some of these farmers will be under the false assumption that there methods are actually creating these benefits when largely they are not.
 
It doesn't under holistic management / reg ag principles. The problem is, it's only a minority of farmers who practise in this way. The thread recently that was about spreading the benefits of grazing livestock to combat the vegan message was quite illuminating. Farmers understand the benefits that can come from grazing livestock which is good news, but some of these farmers will be under the false assumption that there methods are actually creating these benefits when largely they are not.

I agree. I love Allan Savory and what he is saying but we cannot ignore the way we currently produce meat for a lot of meat production.

We spend a lot of money on fertiliser and pesticides and tillage etc. to grow grain for animals. We cannot ignore the carbon loss from soil tillage, the cost of N both in terms of the emissions from the raw material, the emissions of nitrous oxides in manufacturing process and the emissions when we apply it. Also pesticides can be very energy intensive but some can be very cheap to make too.

Its far too simplified by the Vegan message. Grazing animals build soil carbon - in fact they built our soil carbon anyway. That said we do need to offset the meat debate with the fact that people have access to cheap meat and this is a good thing too.

Its complicated alright.
 

dunk999

Member
I think Allan's message is not aimed at how we are currently producing cheap meat in the western world, but more so at the 2/3,rds of the earths surface currently at a scary speed turning to desert. The most important point is through research which he started off heading in the worst possible direction has led him to discover a way to turn these lands back to a useful vegetative state which can not only feed thousands who struggle to survive in these arid climates but also put the carbon out of the air back into the soil. It seems a win win.
 

delilah

Member
Just going to use this thread as an excuse to post this in Livestock for those who don't visit the Agriculture Matters forum. Produced by the TFF collective :)

Community-Farm-leaflet (2).jpg
 
Location
Gwynedd
I take what he says about increased herbage cover increasing the ability of soils to remove Carbon from the atmosphere, but ideally he should put much more emphasis on the New Zealand claim that Methane (CH4) production from cattle and sheep does not contribute to increased greenhouse gases.
The Methane is very quickly oxidised to Carbon Dioxide and water (CH4 +2 O2 = CO2 +2H2O. The resulting CO2 is absorbed by the grass and grazing by animals increases its productivity, and so the cycle continues and improves.

So next time anyone claims that your cows farting (actually their belching) causes global warming, explain that it doesn't.

,


 
There are more videos online of him, or someone else from the savoury institute, explaining how it works in more detail and how the local people take to it being done.
I saw a great video a while ago about a village that was being helped by them. The village already had the cattle all owned by people who lived there. They just had someone come and manage them, or show them how to manage them, in this way and the results were dramatic as shown in this video. Another thing they did in that video was the cattle were all bought into one small paddock overnight so they could concentrate all the muck and urine in one place. After a while of all this extra fertility the paddock became a garden for the village and they were able to grow enough food there to feed everyone and have some to sell as well. It was great to see much better than anything Oxfam or the likes would do. @Sheila Cooke might know of this video or something similar? I don't know if I could find it again :oops:

I'm not sure which video you are referring to, but here is a video that talks about the Africa Centre for Holistic Management (ACHM) and their work in Zimbabwe (the bits where you see Precious Phiri speaking -- she is is an ACHM educator working at the Sizinda Commuinity). They do show and talk about the Sizinda Community.

I got to visit it when I did my hub training. They are an amazing community. They got started because 1 person in the community lost her husband in work accident and she was left with young children and no way to feed them. She contacted ACHM and they helped. Each villager had only 1 or 2 cattle. They herded them together to begin to get some animal impact and herd effect on the land.

 

Crofter64

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Quebec, Canada
It doesn't under holistic management / reg ag principles. The problem is, it's only a minority of farmers who practise in this way. The thread recently that was about spreading the benefits of grazing livestock to combat the vegan message was quite illuminating. Farmers understand the benefits that can come from grazing livestock which is good news, but some of these farmers will be under the false assumption that there methods are actually creating these benefits when largely they are not.
I agree. But we all have to start somewhere , sometime , on this journey.. Some are starting earlier and hopefully making it easier for those who follow, so they can ( perhaps) avoid the more harmful mistakes. I know what you mean about the farmers whose grazing methods are lousy, on the other hand , at least their livestock are outside unlike around here where it was once common but now most dairy farms are total confinement. Not much carbon sequestration happening there.
 

delilah

Member
Gave out the TFF flyer at our farmers market this morning, shoppers were very receptive to the message.

Happy to get them printed and sent out to anyone who would like some, they are ideal for any event you may be running - lambing day, open farm Sunday - or for farm shops etc. £50 per 1000, inc UK postage. PM to order :).


CIMG2805.JPG
 

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