Scene of 'utter devastation' - neglect and death of 84 cattle

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
My condolences, but my opinion stands. And there is clearly a human element because they sorted it later. My experience of BCMS is that they are a lot easier to deal with than the tax office, vat office and most other government organisations.
It was sorted because the folk are lucid and on it- i can think of plenty of households where the cattle would remain destined for the bin.
And BCMS weren't the problem...they seldom are.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
It is a slightly dramatic example, but essentially what has happened here although I don't think it will be too serious and I will return the 3 passports. The cows aren't suffering and I'm not destitute, but you can see how an inflexible system could run out of control and lead to disaster so easily.
As it happens, we were 10 cows from the end of the 2nd TB test when one turned and knocked me flying, knocking me out on a stone and running over my left side. The rest of my helpers called for an ambulance and I ended up in Salisbury hospital under observation (but OK with aches and pains :) ). The cows all passed the test, but the 3 still showed up as untested and I had a letter last week with a 21 day warning. It states that I must update my records with BCMS, which I certainly will, but it causes lots of stress in an unusually stressful year so far.

That's horrific. I thought the story was made up and fictitious. Where's that guy looking for ideas for a film script? But then Joe Pubic would never believe it.:(

A copy of that ought to go to your MP.
 
Well I for one don't think the solution to someone that is struggling to look after their animals is more bloody paper work taking them away from looking after their animals
Quite agree, this sad situation has little to do with farming, it’s about people’s ability to cope when life goes wrong. The story could just as easily have been about someone letting their pets get in such a state, indeed I’m pretty sure I’ve heard such stories in the past.

The answer, I’m not sure, probably better communities where people look out for one another, more beaurecracy will probably do more harm than good even if it is introduced with good intentions.
 
I don't think people have a problem with people becoming depressed or have any difficulty understanding why people find the job gets on top of them, I think those of us who were pretty animated about this thread at the start were pished off that the situation was allowed to reach something akin to animal Auschwitz.

'Can't cope with the paperwork'- welcome to the world of business. If you can't cope with that then getting out is your best option. You can always pay someone to do office work.

The industry should not 'tolerate' or 'understand' this kind of incident. It makes a mockery of both the spirit of the profession and the very regulations and hurdles every man jack on this forum has to comply with.

People keep harping on about how hard the job is, I think have established yonks ago that livestock production is not a game for the unwary, the inept or the idiot. There should never be a situation where animals have to pay the price and suffer because the humans in charge were not up to the job.

I do not see that someone who has been associated with such a disaster should ever be allowed to keep so much as a pet mouse ever again. Lets not dance around this- the reality is someone confined their animals in a shed and let them all starve to death.
 
What has paperwork got to do with looking after farm animals
Accountants and the like are good at paperwork so that means they are automatically good at looking after farm animals
What a load of crap
That sort of reasoning is half the bloody problem

You do not need a PhD in animal husbandry to fudging spot when things have gone too far!!! How many clues would you like? Dead animals being trodden into 3 foot of their own sh1t?
 

multi power

Member
Location
pembrokeshire
I don't think people have a problem with people becoming depressed or have any difficulty understanding why people find the job gets on top of them, I think those of us who were pretty animated about this thread at the start were pished off that the situation was allowed to reach something akin to animal Auschwitz.

'Can't cope with the paperwork'- welcome to the world of business. If you can't cope with that then getting out is your best option. You can always pay someone to do office work.

The industry should not 'tolerate' or 'understand' this kind of incident. It makes a mockery of both the spirit of the profession and the very regulations and hurdles every man jack on this forum has to comply with.

People keep harping on about how hard the job is, I think have established yonks ago that livestock production is not a game for the unwary, the inept or the idiot. There should never be a situation where animals have to pay the price and suffer because the humans in charge were not up to the job.

I do not see that someone who has been associated with such a disaster should ever be allowed to keep so much as a pet mouse ever again. Lets not dance around this- the reality is someone confined their animals in a shed and let them all starve to death.
For heaven's sake when someone gets to the mental state they are struggling to look after livestock on a daily basis they would be already have gone far past the ability to actually hire someone to deal with the paperwork
 

egbert

Member
Livestock Farmer
i'm
I don't think people have a problem with people becoming depressed or have any difficulty understanding why people find the job gets on top of them, I think those of us who were pretty animated about this thread at the start were pished off that the situation was allowed to reach something akin to animal Auschwitz.

'Can't cope with the paperwork'- welcome to the world of business. If you can't cope with that then getting out is your best option. You can always pay someone to do office work.

The industry should not 'tolerate' or 'understand' this kind of incident. It makes a mockery of both the spirit of the profession and the very regulations and hurdles every man jack on this forum has to comply with.

People keep harping on about how hard the job is, I think have established yonks ago that livestock production is not a game for the unwary, the inept or the idiot. There should never be a situation where animals have to pay the price and suffer because the humans in charge were not up to the job.

I do not see that someone who has been associated with such a disaster should ever be allowed to keep so much as a pet mouse ever again. Lets not dance around this- the reality is someone confined their animals in a shed and let them all starve to death.

No-one condones the actions referred to in the OP. No-one thinks a situation like that should be tolerated for a moment.

And I'm glad you're so positive in your attitude.
I'm sure you're never going to struggle, or go off the rails. Good for you.

I will try my best to remember not to call if I've got problems one day.
 
i'm


No-one condones the actions referred to in the OP. No-one thinks a situation like that should be tolerated for a moment.

And I'm glad you're so positive in your attitude.
I'm sure you're never going to struggle, or go off the rails. Good for you.

I will try my best to remember not to call if I've got problems one day.

Please explain what positive aspect there is here? It involved 84 animals.

We arent talking about 3 beasts left in a paddock with bugger all to eat.
 
I'm referring to your apparent point of view.
You seem very positive that it couldn't happen to anyone of any worth. I'm not so sure.
Sh*t happens -it clearly happened to these people.
I’m not sure of the exact figure but mental health issues affect a surprisingly high percentage of people at some point in their lives, many of whom probably think it will never happen to them.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
Or maybe just feed them first?

The point of the system is to reduce input costs but identifying individuals who can't thrive under a competitive grazing regime.

Feeding them would be counter productive. Identify them, then remove them from the flock/herd.
 

linga

Member
Location
Ceredigion
I don't think people have a problem with people becoming depressed or have any difficulty understanding why people find the job gets on top of them, I think those of us who were pretty animated about this thread at the start were pished off that the situation was allowed to reach something akin to animal Auschwitz.

'Can't cope with the paperwork'- welcome to the world of business. If you can't cope with that then getting out is your best option. You can always pay someone to do office work.

The industry should not 'tolerate' or 'understand' this kind of incident. It makes a mockery of both the spirit of the profession and the very regulations and hurdles every man jack on this forum has to comply with.

People keep harping on about how hard the job is, I think have established yonks ago that livestock production is not a game for the unwary, the inept or the idiot. There should never be a situation where animals have to pay the price and suffer because the humans in charge were not up to the job.

I do not see that someone who has been associated with such a disaster should ever be allowed to keep so much as a pet mouse ever again. Lets not dance around this- the reality is someone confined their animals in a shed and let them all starve to death.

I have a feeling that some time ago you informed us you were embarking on a medical degree. If so I can only assume you haven’t got to the mental health part yet. Maybe when you do you might understand better just how debilitating mental health issues can be.
At the moment my impression is that you need to improve your bedside manner.
Condemn the act by all means but understand the offender. That way we stand a chance of stopping this happening again.
And that is what is important.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
If you have to keep culling those animals who are not 'competitive' enough and then lose condition then you are overstocked. Competition does not involve trailing the fields in February looking for a blade of grass.

IMG_20190206_163914.jpg

IMG_20190217_093251.jpg


Plenty of grass on my fields in Feb. Photos from 8th of Feb on two farms I had tackers on.

If course competition doesn't mean starving stock and seeing what does well. Regardless of how they get their nutrition, stock must have adequate intakes available. This is where feed budgeting, grassland management and rotational grazing come in.

If there is a short fall in forage supplies, then feed budgeting will show this to be quickly identifed and action can be taken, be it supplementary feeding or restocking.

I suspect our outlooks are very different as our circumstances are very different. I don't know about your available land area, but mine is extremely volatile year on year (and sometimes week to week!).

This is why feed budgeting is so important to me. The actual acreage doesn't really matter, it's the available DM and how best to utilise it that I focus on.

When I talk about individuals not competing I mean those less aggressive grazers which do not thrive under the system even though there is sufficient forage available for the mob within the system.
 

honeyend

Member
I am new to the world of keeping cattle, but I have had various forms of livestock though out my life. I think there is a range of what people think as acceptable livestock management, I have been to places where I thought the animals were kept in too small a space and up to mid cannon in s*it. There are lots of people who never seem to buy enough forage, like winter is never going to come.
There are some people who do not read and write, or if they do, not well,its not down to stupidity, but if they haven't go someone who feels competent handling paperwork and talking to people its a huge handicap. Who do you ask for help without losing your dignity? The world has changed so much in the last 10 years, its hard to buy anything with a card and an understanding of how money works and the paperwork that goes with it. I have son in law with a degree who can not ask the price of a bag of sweets in a shop, we are not all the same.
Farming is not just a business its a way of life for some people, you have perhaps inherited the land, bills and perhaps have elderly relatives to feed a water you end up doing a lot of things badly.
I suppose we never think we are going to need help, and asking for help is a big step. I turned up one day to find my mum who was townie, struggling with a round bale of hay to feed cows. It turned out my stepfather was ill in bed, all she had to do was phone I would have gone over to help. He didn't like paying anyone for anything and left a huge mess when he died, fortunately no livestock, but he was very secretive and would have not liked anyone knowing his business, there was always a fiddle somewhere.
Mental health is a growing problem, and there is a lot of resources being spent on it, but if you live in a house on its own, with perhaps elderly parents or partner, your only contact with outsiders the trip to do the weekly shop, and the odd trip to the GP surgery who is actually going to have a meaningful conversation with you or know what is going on. The GP on a home visit is not going to have a look round the cattle sheds.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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