Scene of 'utter devastation' - neglect and death of 84 cattle

[DrWazzock]

I allways thought that when in hospital people would receive the best care possible, experience has shown that to not necessarily be the case. We have no choice but to entrust ourselves to the medical profession when in need but I certainly dont have blind faith in them, it would seem they are just as capable of screwing up or being incompetent as any other member of society, and no doubt just as in any other profession, some are far better at their job than others. You should of seen the look of horror on mother’s face one night about 12 months ago when we realised that dad needed to go into hospital, previous experience has been extremely tough on mother but as someone who deals with livestock daily I know when I’m out of my depth and professional help is required, dad had an infection in his cheek, the GP had prescribed antibiotics but he’d only had a couple of pills on a week long course of 24, he was hot and unresponsive, getting him to hospital was the only thing to do despite all the fears and memory’s of what had gone before.

But elderly care does seem to be a real problem, on the times dad has been in hospital we have met people, complete strangers who are equally frustrated at how the system operates, we also talk to people who have had or know of people who have had similar bad experiences .

We and many others have had a very similar experience when dad was in hospital here. He went in walking for an op. Op was completely unsuccessful and he came out bedridden after weeks of indecision and neglect. There was me thinking it would be a 24/7 service. Nothing major was ever done Friday to Monday. By Tuesday they had just about got going again. Bit of action Wednesday, then Thursday running down for the weekend. If mother hadn't fed him he would have starved to death. 10% of time laid on a trolley between wards. They also wanted to put him in a home, but we managed to get him back home after weeks of assessing the house by clipboards. He spent the last months of his life in very much less than optimum circumstances thanks to the NHS, apart from the final few weeks back home when the care agency did a marvellous job.

Utter shambles. When I get to that stage, I will not go to hospital. Worst place you can be if you are old and struggling. Whole system needs a rethink.

 

[ollie989898]

Not everyone is an expert on the ailments that they might be living with, and most people start from the basis of not wanting to make a fuss. Most patients are quite humble in their relationships with their healthcare professionals, even now, in the increasingly overentitled C21st.
If they complain, it will be, for example, to a Nurse - who'll more often than not see how the individual professionals within the system work, and take steps to alter things from within (if brave enough to risk the penalties of whistleblowing). It won't necessarily be to a student.

I disagree wholeheartedly.

I have had very candid conversations with people and it never ceases to amaze me how they are able to talk at complete length about their health, any ailments they might have and the level of care they have had, I presume it is because I am older than the norm. I believe it is easier to them to criticise the NHS or their level of care in front of me than the actual people who are working in the system itself.

One of the most important things I gained from my old job was the intense sales training and experience.

 

[ollie989898]

NHS is in one hell of a mess.

There is more cases of people getting incorrect/ no treatment etc than there are people that have had the correct treatment from the outset.

ALL doctors must have empathy, you have NONE of that quality Ollie and therefore will make a bad doctor if you ever qualify and from your posts and blind denial about the NHS failings it is very clear that you are going into the medical industry for all the wrong reasons.

Are you aware of the two young doctors ( no connection ) that committed suicide in the SW in the last two years due to work pressure??

You do make me laugh. Old GUTH and the exclamation marks. I am well upset now, there I was thinking I could use you as a character reference as well.

'From my posts and blind denial about NHS failings'. It isn't my NHS, it doesn't belong to me, I'm not responsible for it and I don't think the mistakes that are made in various trusts across the UK are any secret- they are normally in the headline news in case you didn't notice.

I think you are in the industry for the wrong reasons. In fact, I don't actually think you are on the right planet most of the time, but carry on.

 

[Henarar]

When I was in hospital two years ago I found the care was excellent the food was good and there was plenty of it,
there was a couple of older chaps on the ward and they were probably not going to be about for to long but they were looked after very well from what I could see and hear
the doctors were a bit slow sorting the paperwork so I could go home but apart from that I can't complain,
I didn't expect a five star hotel though

 

[lim x]

Whilst I am not dismissing other people's views of the NHS and their experiences, my own with my elderly Mother have been very different.

Going back approx three years we suspected Mum had dementia and contacted the GP who were very pro helping her. She ignored all offers of help from us and the GP and continued to live as she always had.
A few months later on one of my visits,I found her in a terrible state, a lack of sodium, and she had eight weeks in hospital where she refused any mobility aid and relied on the staff to wait on her hand and foot. Because of this she had to go into a care home, immobile and needing 24 hr care. She spent the next two years having her every need attended to by excellent and patient staff, and 10 hospital stays for varying reasons. All of this time everyone encouraged her to get moving, but if you are not willing to help yourself and constantly complaining about every nit picking detail and you can't even be bothered to flannel your own face then I am afraid your body loses functions and muscle. Eventually, your vital organs give up and she passed away just a few days before christmas last year.

As you can imagine, I've seen a lot of the local hospitals and nursing home and there are a hell of a lot just like my Mum, particuarly a lot of women. I've been with her to A&E at least 8 times and have to say the staff are bleedy marvellous considering how they are treated....I wouldn't do their job in a million years.

 

[ollie989898]

Whilst I am not dismissing other people's views of the NHS and their experiences, my own with my elderly Mother have been very different.

Going back approx three years we suspected Mum had dementia and contacted the GP who were very pro helping her. She ignored all offers of help from us and the GP and continued to live as she always had.
A few months later on one of my visits,I found her in a terrible state, a lack of sodium, and she had eight weeks in hospital where she refused any mobility aid and relied on the staff to wait on her hand and foot. Because of this she had to go into a care home, immobile and needing 24 hr care. She spent the next two years having her every need attended to by excellent and patient staff, and 10 hospital stays for varying reasons. All of this time everyone encouraged her to get moving, but if you are not willing to help yourself and constantly complaining about every nit picking detail and you can't even be bothered to flannel your own face then I am afraid your body loses functions and muscle. Eventually, your vital organs give up and she passed away just a few days before christmas last year.

As you can imagine, I've seen a lot of the local hospitals and nursing home and there are a hell of a lot just like my Mum, particuarly a lot of women. I've been with her to A&E at least 8 times and have to say the staff are bleedy marvellous considering how they are treated....I wouldn't do their job in a million years.

My grandmother was exactly the same. She was put into a very very good care home, certainly one of the best in the region and with facilities that exceeded many hotels. All of it was wasted because she never used any. Stayed in bed 24/7 basically except to go to the loo.

Some elderly folk just don't want to be fussed with and you can't do anything against someone's will. It's exceptionally difficult to try to do a procedure on someone who doesn't want anything done to them and probably feels downright cruel.

 

[Scholsey]

We are getting better at keeping people alive than the human body itself, in some cases forcing it to stay alive and its at great cost both dignity, standard of life and unfortunately financial.

 

[som farmer]

When I was in hospital two years ago I found the care was excellent the food was good and there was plenty of it,
there was a couple of older chaps on the ward and they were probably not going to be about for to long but they were looked after very well from what I could see and hear
the doctors were a bit slow sorting the paperwork so I could go home but apart from that I can't complain,
I didn't expect a five star hotel though

I had a few nights in, serious lung infection, loads of staff around all the time, care very good if you could do some of it yourself, they weren't so good with the ones who rung the bell all night, or who threw the food over the floor etc, where I could find real faults was with staff management, the loads of staff were just there,seemed to be no co-ordination, headless chicken comes to mind.

 

[ollie989898]

We are getting better at keeping people alive than the human body itself, in some cases forcing it to stay alive and its at great cost both dignity, standard of life and unfortunately financial.

From what I have seen there is a bit of a shift of opinion on that happening in many circles.

 

[bitwrx]

From memory, we work in the same industry. You have to work pretty hard with an absence of training etc. to get THERP or HEART to give you 1E-2 as a HEP, and that would be a very conservative assessment. In real life, with training and a competent operator, I’d be aiming to have 1E-3 or better.

Given that this seems to have the potential for business falling apart, I’d say it would benefit from some cross checks - when the passports come back, read them and check they’re right.

Ah yeh, forgot about that. How ya doin?

I'm not a HF guy, so only pick up little bits of info here and there - as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

As you say, it's pretty easy to reduce error probability by an order of magnitude with a few checks.

Anyway, all this 'my industry' rubbish will stop soon. I'm on sabbatical as soon as the current project is done - going back into livestock farming for a living. I'll let you know how my record keeping pans out...

 

[Highland Mule]

Ah yeh, forgot about that. How ya doin?

I'm not a HF guy, so only pick up little bits of info here and there - as they say, a little knowledge is a dangerous thing.

As you say, it's pretty easy to reduce error probability by an order of magnitude with a few checks.

Anyway, all this 'my industry' rubbish will stop soon. I'm on sabbatical as soon as the current project is done - going back into livestock farming for a living. I'll let you know how my record keeping pans out...

Good luck with that

 

[Red Fred]

Some elderly folk just don't want to be fussed with and you can't do anything against someone's will. It's exceptionally difficult to try to do a procedure on someone who doesn't want anything done to them and probably feels downright cruel.

Mum was very difficult when it came to taking an interest in things. Even though she started out with all her mental faculties when first bedridden, she refused to take an interest in anything that we thought up, such as radio, newspapers or even a huge tellie my big sis sent down for her. In the end, she was lying there unable to get up for 5 years, with several care visits a day, but seemed to take a perverse pride in saying "no" to anything that was offered.
I suspect she was afraid that we would just leave the TV on and not put our heads round the door through the day so I guess she had a reason, but in fact she had far more visits while in bed than when she was mobile, and was vastly better off than being in a home.