Scotland

[Jackov Altraids]

For Scotland being such a minnow, backwater part of the UK where nothing happens and we can't support ourselves and live cap in hand for the South to fund our entire existence... there's a lot more posts about us from outside, than from us about the outside.

It clearly annoys you, and others, that we (in Election terms) vote alternatively to what is dictated to us. If it didn't, these threads wouldn't even exist.

It says more about those 'down South' who feel they need to comment, than it does about us.

The trouble is, it is a very skewed, one-sided 'fight'.
The SNP got 45% of the votes but over 80% of the seats.
20% of opposition is not enough to properly scrutinise what they do and any comment from south of the border only adds to the racist rants from Sturgeon.
The SNP are very good at politics. They continually use both sides of the same argument to further their cause without having to defend their hypocrisy which is almost endless.
Democracy means they should have a referendum but the EU referendum shouldn't count.
Scotland should be independent..... but be a member of the EU.
England should not have any say on Scotland, but Scotland should be able to vote on English matters
We want the same deal as Northern Ireland, who have a terrible deal.....
The reason I comment is that I am continually being informed what the SNP think and want yet it should be fairly irrelevant to me.

 

[Nithsdale]

The trouble is, it is a very skewed, one-sided 'fight'.
The SNP got 45% of the votes but over 80% of the seats.
20% of opposition is not enough to properly scrutinise what they do and any comment from south of the border only adds to the racist rants from Sturgeon.
The SNP are very good at politics. They continually use both sides of the same argument to further their cause without having to defend their hypocrisy which is almost endless.
Democracy means they should have a referendum but the EU referendum shouldn't count.
Scotland should be independent..... but be a member of the EU.
England should not have any say on Scotland, but Scotland should be able to vote on English matters
We want the same deal as Northern Ireland, who have a terrible deal.....
The reason I comment is that I am continually being informed what the SNP think and want yet it should be fairly irrelevant to me.

When have anyone up here said we want to vote on English only matters?

There was rightly opposition to EVEL, because Westminster is the Parliament of the UK. If England want devolved powers, fine - but do that business elsewhere! English politicians would have complained equally if Scottish Devoloution sat in the House of Commons.

You've got that slightly wrong though and you're mistaking Scottish GE with UK GE - 80% of the seats in Westminster, that is Scotland giving the Tory's a party of opposition.

In Holyrood the SNP sit with a minority government (as was the architectural plan of Holyrood - making parties work together for the good of the country. The majority won in Holyrood by SNP should, theoretically, never have happened) with plenty of opposition to hold them to account.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

England did not want devolved powers but Scotland and Wales did. I'm sure that there would have been very few complaints about Scottish MP's only voting on Scottish matters etc, if they had preferred that option to having a separate parliament/assembly.
If I was Scottish, I'd probably vote SNP in the same way that I'd probably vote for a 'Westcountry First' party if such a thing existed. I think you would make the same comments about WCF as I have the SNP.

 

[Nithsdale]

England did not want devolved powers but Scotland and Wales did. I'm sure that there would have been very few complaints about Scottish MP's only voting on Scottish matters etc, if they had preferred that option to having a separate parliament/assembly.
If I was Scottish, I'd probably vote SNP in the same way that I'd probably vote for a 'Westcountry First' party if such a thing existed. I think you would make the same comments about WCF as I have the SNP.

Hmm so why did Cameron bring it up the very morning after the Indyref, and said it directly answers/solves the West Lothian Question? I think the English sitting MP's did/do want their matters devolved - the drive came from them for EVEL.
I don't blame them either, really.

The slight technical issue there is with the constitution of parliament - all MP's sitting in the House of Commons are equal, all with 1 vote on all votes/matters.
EVEL creates 2 tiers of politician which directly contradicts what I have written above. That is moving towards a constitutional crisis.

I do agree with your previous post, regarding a party in power needing opposition for politics/democracy to work properly.


I understand your last point, but all I can say there is Scotland is a country, once independent, now within a Union - the West Country was never a country, only ever a region of England.

 

[Hindsight]

Letter in The Times today. An interesting observation, I thought.

INDEPENDENT NATION
Sir, I disagree with David Smith’s pessimistic view on the economics of Scottish independence (business, Dec 18). As his piece confirms, Scotland’s tax revenue per head is on a par with that of the UK. For argument’s sake, let us imagine he is right that “an independent Scotland is not economically viable”. Scotland is surrounded by independent countries of a similar size that are not just viable but positively thriving in comparison with the UK. It is also blessed with even greater natural and human resources than most of those peers. If, after 312 years of Union, such a country has been rendered unique out of all northwest European nations in being “non-viable”, then what a damning indictment of that Union, and what a powerful argument for change that would be.
Chris Hegarty
North Berwick, East Lothian

 

[Jackov Altraids]

By definition, it is the SNP's aim to be divisive. Part of their hypocrisy is in attacking whatever Westminster do. Investing in Scotland is a cynical attempt to curry favour, not investing is ignoring the needs of Scotland etc.
It is quite a unique situation which is self-perpetuating.
We are a small set of Islands with a shared history. According to a radio programme yesterday, the idea of it being made up of separate nations is quite modern.

 

[bobk]

The snp are by far the loudest in Scotland, some folks would be surprised at the polling station to learn there were other options, that's one place the others need to start..

They're the loudest here as well . yawn .

 

[Muck Spreader]

They're the loudest here as well . yawn .

SNP been canvassing in the Vendee! They must be getting ready for their accession into the EU.

 

[jackstor]

Is there many Scottish farmers that support independence and Sturgeon?
We have quite a lot of Scottish farmers come to ours, see a lot in the auctions, have family and friends who are Scottish farmers and not one have said they want Independence and they all hate Sturgeon!!

 

[Agrivator]

Is there many Scottish farmers that support independence and Sturgeon?
We have quite a lot of Scottish farmers come to ours, see a lot in the auctions, have family and friends who are Scottish farmers and not one have said they want Independence and they all hate Sturgeon!!

That sums it up.
In addition, Scotland might have a comparable tax-take per head, but that includes tax paid by the much inflated public sector. I've said before, public employees don't pay real tax - it doesn't exist. That's why Scotland is subsidised by an extra £1400/head.

 

[Jackov Altraids]

It should also be noted that when a general election was first called, Nicola Sturgeon stated that Brexit was the defining issue and that voters should feel safe voting for the SNP as it wouldn't mean an approval of Indy-ref-2.
She almost immediately changed tack and didn't say it again.

 

[Henarar]

Hmm so why did Cameron bring it up the very morning after the Indyref, and said it directly answers/solves the West Lothian Question? I think the English sitting MP's did/do want their matters devolved - the drive came from them for EVEL.
I don't blame them either, really.

The slight technical issue there is with the constitution of parliament - all MP's sitting in the House of Commons are equal, all with 1 vote on all votes/matters.
EVEL creates 2 tiers of politician which directly contradicts what I have written above. That is moving towards a constitutional crisis.

I do agree with your previous post, regarding a party in power needing opposition for politics/democracy to work properly.


I understand your last point, but all I can say there is Scotland is a country, once independent, now within a Union - the West Country was never a country, only ever a region of England.

country smuntry, how about a kingdom

 

[Nithsdale]

country smuntry, how about a kingdom
View attachment 849336

There was me thinking it was just Queens down there

 

[Henarar]

pee'd on your camp fire

 

[Nithsdale]

pee'd on your camp fire

Not really.

When was it ever independent to the rest of England?


You can have a vote on independence if you want, doesn't bother me
I will not profess to have any knowledge on your viability or economic prowess, but I wish you well

 

[Henarar]

Not really.

When was it ever independent to the rest of England?


You can have a vote on independence if you want, doesn't bother me
I will not profess to have any knowledge on your viability or economic prowess, but I wish you well

And the same to you with knobs on

 

[Nithsdale]

Not the way you wanted that to go?... Oh dear

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Looks like Cornwall has always been in its own little world.......


And I never knew....
Cornwall is administered as a county of England, but the Cornish people are a recognised national minority, included under the terms of the Framework Convention for the Protection of National Minorities in 2014.

 

[Henarar]

Could say the same to you
If you want to pack up jolly old Scotland and leave I have no hesitation in wishing you the best of British luck

 

[Henarar]

Looks like Cornwall has always been in its own little world.......

You surprised?