Scotland

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Why are those that want independence for Scotland so convinced that those south of the border [that are not part of government] don't want them to have it ?
I don't understand it I would have thought they would be pleased that we are happy for them to do what they want.
do they need to feel that if they get their way they have somehow won against us ?
 

Agrivator

Member
And another nail in the SNP's coffin:

The SNP received 45% of the votes.

Assume that all those who voted SNP support independence.

Assume that almost all of the other 55% who voted for Unionist Parties don't want independence.

The turnout was about 70%.

So only about 31% of the electorate in Scotland support independence.
You are making a mighty amount of assumptions to come to that strange conclusion. :scratchhead:

What do you think is wrong with my deductions? Alternatively, could you present your own estimates of what proportion of voters in Scotland want independence?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
What do you think is wrong with my deductions? Alternatively, could you present your own estimates of what proportion of voters in Scotland want independence?


Because it was a general election not a referendum.

There are many who support independence but do not vote SNP in elections because they disagree with the rest of their manifesto. The last Independence referendum there was a group in Scotland called "Conservatives for Yes"... who do you believe they vote for in elections?!?
Likewise there are those who support the SNP but do not support independence... you need to be very simple to believe every vote for Labour, Lib Dem or Tory in Scotland is a vote for the Union.

It is not as straight cut as you try to make it and anyone with half a brain can see that.
 

abitdaft

Member
Location
Scotland
Do you see any of us complaining?

You feel hard done by because Westminster- join the queue.

Personally Id suggest all regional governments were scrapped on the grounds of cost, its a total dead loss. You want independence good luck with that.

I don't see what right Westminster feel they have in Scottish people deciding what we want for the future. As for "regional governments ", we are not a region, we are a country, a nation and to be governed by such a distant Parliament that will never understand Scotland and our psyche feels very wrong to me. I am not saying that Scotland would vote for independence, just that WE should have the choice to choose.
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
I don't see what right Westminster feel they have in Scottish people deciding what we want for the future. As for "regional governments ", we are not a region, we are a country, a nation and to be governed by such a distant Parliament that will never understand Scotland and our psyche feels very wrong to me. I am not saying that Scotland would vote for independence, just that WE should have the choice to choose.
The UK government has the right to decide because it is the UK government and Scotland is part of the UK
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Don't feel to bad about it though as they don't seem to want to let England have a vote on English independence despite me mentioning it to Boris every time I see him and we don't even have a parliament/government for England to shout our case and you lot feel hard done by FFS
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
Don't feel to bad about it though as they don't seem to want to let England have a vote on English independence despite me mentioning it to Boris every time I see him and we don't even have a parliament/government for England to shout our case and you lot feel hard done by FFS
If the UK government thought that we were costing them money they would be happy to see us go!
If that were the case there would be a lot of parts of the kingdom that the uk government would get shot of
 

Henarar

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Somerset
In the interest of fairness if they let one area of the UK have an independence referendum they should let all four have one, but no some get special treatment
 

nivilla1982

Member
Livestock Farmer
Labour 'won' the previous UK general election but with a minority, Gordon Brown couldn't form a coalition and declined ruling without majority. The also ran Tory and LibDems formed a coalition. Cameron never held any majority on his own
Cameron achieved a small majority in the 2015 GE, (majority of 12, but working majority of 15 when PSF abstention-ism is factored in) following a coalition with the Lib Dem in the General Election in 2010. Their manifesto for that election committed them to an in/out referendum by 2017.
The majority was a surprise to most commentators who had predicted a hung parliament.
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Cameron achieved a small majority in the 2015 GE, (majority of 12, but working majority of 15 when PSF abstention-ism is factored in) following a coalition with the Lib Dem in the General Election in 2010. Their manifesto for that election committed them to an in/out referendum by 2017.
The majority was a surprise to most commentators who had predicted a hung parliament.

Yes, you're right. I had it in my head he had called the EU referendum before that general election had taken place, with it finally happening in 2016
 

arcobob

Member
Location
Norfolk
Ha!

Well who really promised it was a "once in a generation" vote?? Nobody. Like Boris, it was an off the cuff remark. It was never a pledge, it was never enshrined...
Boris made his comment in an official speech, Salmond did not.
Did I say anybody promised anything. The statement that it was a once in a lifetime or once in a generation opportunity was made by both Salmond and Sturgeon in order to encourage people to grasp the opportunity. There was an article to this effect in the National, your independence newspaper. The referendum was followed by the cross party Smith report that concluded that there was no future timescale restriction on a further referendum and I believe the findings were implemented. So Boris was making a statement of his intentions which could not be implemented and Sturgeon and Salmond had made misleading remarks in the run up to the vote. Which persons were telling lies?
 

Nithsdale

Member
Livestock Farmer
Did I say anybody promised anything. The statement that it was a once in a lifetime or once in a generation opportunity was made by both Salmond and Sturgeon in order to encourage people to grasp the opportunity. There was an article to this effect in the National, your independence newspaper. The referendum was followed by the cross party Smith report that concluded that there was no future timescale restriction on a further referendum and I believe the findings were implemented. So Boris was making a statement of his intentions which could not be implemented and Sturgeon and Salmond had made misleading remarks in the run up to the vote. Which persons were telling lies?


Boris wanted us out of the EU by the end of October... he could easily have done it but he back tracked. He lied about his position. And if he lets Big Ben ring out at the end of this month as is supposedly planned, he is lying about the UKs current position - as we will still be EU members on 1st February


Would you preferred Salmond to have simply said it was a golden opportunity?
We all know the point he was making when it was said... Yet many keep mentioning it as if it was legally binding, but you've just said there it was found there is no timescale restriction on another referendum
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 78 43.1%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 63 34.8%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 16.6%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.7%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 4 2.2%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,286
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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