Scouring calves

Had 3 calves that are scouring just as they have been weaned and in one case one has died, but one has cured up completely, now another has started scouring. Main symptoms seem to be loose yellow diarrhoea and very unsteady on their feet and after getting up they seem to just fall/wobble over after not to long. Rang vet when I had the first one and just treated with pen+strep but didn't seem to do anything for the second one that got it which died within 24 hours. No signs of pneumonia. Is this normal for calves? Did have a calf born which the vet said was a PI BVD calf but neither had come into contact with this calf
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
not wanting to soumd like a residant anus who will reply before long, but gettimg the scour tested was the best desision i ever made.

I was about to like your post until the antibiotic bit!

Calves more than 7 days old do not need antibiotics when they have scour.

Get a sample tested. Could be cocci, could be crypto.
 

jade35

Member
Location
S E Cornwall
Had 3 calves that are scouring just as they have been weaned and in one case one has died, but one has cured up completely, now another has started scouring. Main symptoms seem to be loose yellow diarrhoea and very unsteady on their feet and after getting up they seem to just fall/wobble over after not to long. Rang vet when I had the first one and just treated with pen+strep but didn't seem to do anything for the second one that got it which died within 24 hours. No signs of pneumonia. Is this normal for calves? Did have a calf born which the vet said was a PI BVD calf but neither had come into contact with this calf

Will, are you now testing all calves at birth for BVD with the special eartags?
http://www.xlvets.co.uk/farm/bvd-free
/http://www.xlvets.co.uk/sites/default/files/uploads/files/public

In the meantime how else are you treating the calves? Are they having electrolytes / rehydration therapy? Who feeds the calves and are they picking up the scours early enough? If they have got to the wobbling and falling over stage they probably need i/v fluids to rehydrate as they will soon get to the stage where the the gut will not absorb the fluid needed.


www.xlvets.co.uk/farm/sites/xlfarmpublic.co.uk/files/Calf%2520Scour_0.pdf for an easy to read PDF on calf scours and treatment.
 
Will, are you now testing all calves at birth for BVD with the special eartags?
http://www.xlvets.co.uk/farm/bvd-free
/http://www.xlvets.co.uk/sites/default/files/uploads/files/public

In the meantime how else are you treating the calves? Are they having electrolytes / rehydration therapy? Who feeds the calves and are they picking up the scours early enough? If they have got to the wobbling and falling over stage they probably need i/v fluids to rehydrate as they will soon get to the stage where the the gut will not absorb the fluid needed.


www.xlvets.co.uk/farm/sites/xlfarmpublic.co.uk/files/Calf%2520Scour_0.pdf for an easy to read PDF on calf scours and treatment.
No as never had a case of BVD before this one that was spotted by the vet was culled and vet said they need nose to nose contact to catch it where as this one had been kept separate.
Yes treating with a syrup type rehydration and pen+strep plus metacam. I feed and bed the calves twice a day and take notice of anything that doesn't look right. Also check their back ends for anything scouring
Thats what I was wondering. Would be strange to get a scour when weaned off milk if they are eating plenty feed.
yes off milk after being fed milk on a bucket not a cow
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
I was about to like your post until the antibiotic bit!

Calves more than 7 days old do not need antibiotics when they have scour.

Get a sample tested. Could be cocci, could be crypto.

Interesting reply. My answer would have been to administer some scour powders to rehydrate and as previously suggested treat with Norodine for 4-5 days consecutively. All my calves are subject to BVD test and are treated routinely for Cocci.
My vet suggested Norodine treatment for a problem we once had with a scouring animal and I now repeat it. All I can say is that it works and what's even better Norodine is cheap as chips.
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
But it's misuse of antibiotics. That's really not ok.

The 'problem' is that sulphonamides (like Norodine) have a drying effect on the scour so it appears it is curing them. It's the equivalent of you taking co-codamol and getting constipation - the drying up is a side effect.

The scour in older animals is almost never caused by bacteria so no antibiotics justified or needed, no mention in the XL vets link given earlier. Unsure what the OP's vet wanted to treat with the Pen/Strep TBH.
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
But it's misuse of antibiotics. That's really not ok.

The 'problem' is that sulphonamides (like Norodine) have a drying effect on the scour so it appears it is curing them. It's the equivalent of you taking co-codamol and getting constipation - the drying up is a side effect.

The scour in older animals is almost never caused by bacteria so no antibiotics justified or needed, no mention in the XL vets link given earlier. Unsure what the OP's vet wanted to treat with the Pen/Strep TBH.


Maybe it is just "drying them up" but Norodine and Rehydration works for me and with BBx calves at £350+ I'm not taking chances.

What's your view @bovine on prophylactic Zactran administered to calves on arrival at a unit for rearing?
 
But it's misuse of antibiotics. That's really not ok.

The 'problem' is that sulphonamides (like Norodine) have a drying effect on the scour so it appears it is curing them. It's the equivalent of you taking co-codamol and getting constipation - the drying up is a side effect.

The scour in older animals is almost never caused by bacteria so no antibiotics justified or needed, no mention in the XL vets link given earlier. Unsure what the OP's vet wanted to treat with the Pen/Strep TBH.
Ow I forgot to mention the first calf that was I'll also had an ear infection where the tag had gone through the ear, he said its not impossible for the infection in the ear to of caused the calf to become unwell and scour because of that. It ended up having its tags cut out, sprayed with antibiotic spray and pen+strep, which is when it started scouring
 

Stinker

Member
I was about to like your post until the antibiotic bit!

Calves more than 7 days old do not need antibiotics when they have scour.

Get a sample tested. Could be cocci, could be crypto.

Unlikely to be either in my opinion. Doubt either would kill a calf that old that quick unless you had missed it scouring for ages.

Ow I forgot to mention the first calf that was I'll also had an ear infection where the tag had gone through the ear, he said its not impossible for the infection in the ear to of caused the calf to become unwell and scour because of that. It ended up having its tags cut out, sprayed with antibiotic spray and pen+strep, which is when it started scouring

I hate to say it but the first calf sound like a PI calf or one that has seen BVD infection. The ears aren't healing because of their compromised immune system. If you do a group antibody BVD test it would tell you if the calves had been infected at some point PI calves won't have antibodies though.
 
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An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
Hell no!

This is why there is going to be greatly increased control over the use of antibiotics. This kind of use is NOT ACCEPTABLE.

Well thats really interesting. I specifically asked my vet about the use of Zactran in this way in light of the concern over the responsible use of antibiotics. I wanted to be doing the right thing. My vet is adamant that use in this way is entirely appropriate and can be defended. I have used my vet to produce a full health plan for my calf rearing and, as part of that, all calves coming onto the unit are treated prophylactically with Zactran on the day of arrival. I guess this just goes to show that within the veterinary profession their are other views besides yours and there does not appear to be a full consensus. On that basis it is very difficult to determine on a forum such as this who is indeed right or wrong.
In my case i have sought the advice of my vet and implemented it accordingly.
 
Well thats really interesting. I specifically asked my vet about the use of Zactran in this way in light of the concern over the responsible use of antibiotics. I wanted to be doing the right thing. My vet is adamant that use in this way is entirely appropriate and can be defended. I have used my vet to produce a full health plan for my calf rearing and, as part of that, all calves coming onto the unit are treated prophylactically with Zactran on the day of arrival. I guess this just goes to show that within the veterinary profession their are other views besides yours and there does not appear to be a full consensus. On that basis it is very difficult to determine on a forum such as this who is indeed right or wrong.
In my case i have sought the advice of my vet and implemented it accordingly.
Exactly same as my vet prescribed a short coarse of pen for a bullock that was obviously unwell but a thorough examination couldn't find anything wrong. Bullock is now much better :)
 

bovine

Member
Location
North
Well thats really interesting. I specifically asked my vet about the use of Zactran in this way in light of the concern over the responsible use of antibiotics. I wanted to be doing the right thing. My vet is adamant that use in this way is entirely appropriate and can be defended.

I'm glad you are working with your vet and have a health plan. I can tell you there is legislation being passed though Europe at the moment banning the use of antibiotics in that way, and (despite Brexit) I have zero doubt we will get similar legislation here. You won't be able to use it in that way. The writing is on the wall - I'm not scaremongering.

The days of using antibiotics in these ways are gone. We will need to justify EVERY prescription and use of antibiotic. That won't be for calf scour and it won't be for prevention.
 

jade35

Member
Location
S E Cornwall
Had 3 calves that are scouring just as they have been weaned and in one case one has died, but one has cured up completely, now another has started scouring. Main symptoms seem to be loose yellow diarrhoea and very unsteady on their feet and after getting up they seem to just fall/wobble over after not to long. Rang vet when I had the first one and just treated with pen+strep but didn't seem to do anything for the second one that got it which died within 24 hours. No signs of pneumonia. Is this normal for calves? Did have a calf born which the vet said was a PI BVD calf but neither had come into contact with this calf

Will, what age are these weaned calves, how big a group and how are the other calves looking? With weaned calves on solids I wouldn't expect yellow scours (but I could be very wrong:cautious:) more brown or grey.

Another article on calf scours. The first section lists the approx. ages for different types of scour.
http://www.fwi.co.uk/academy/lesson/calf-scours

Finally, do you have starlings ?
 

An Gof

Member
Location
Cornwall
I'm glad you are working with your vet and have a health plan. I can tell you there is legislation being passed though Europe at the moment banning the use of antibiotics in that way, and (despite Brexit) I have zero doubt we will get similar legislation here. You won't be able to use it in that way. The writing is on the wall - I'm not scaremongering.

The days of using antibiotics in these ways are gone. We will need to justify EVERY prescription and use of antibiotic. That won't be for calf scour and it won't be for prevention.

But thats the point, i have questioned the approach and my vet has justified the prescription for prophylactic use of Zactran on arrival for calves entering my rearing system.
 
I was about to like your post until the antibiotic bit!

Calves more than 7 days old do not need antibiotics when they have scour.

Get a sample tested. Could be cocci, could be crypto.

But it's misuse of antibiotics. That's really not ok.

The 'problem' is that sulphonamides (like Norodine) have a drying effect on the scour so it appears it is curing them. It's the equivalent of you taking co-codamol and getting constipation - the drying up is a side effect.

The scour in older animals is almost never caused by bacteria so no antibiotics justified or needed, no mention in the XL vets link given earlier. Unsure what the OP's vet wanted to treat with the Pen/Strep TBH.

I have have just had scour go through all my Belgian Blue calves. All were over a week old. The "bug" for want of a better name worked its way through every pen over a couple of weeks. All were treated with just the crappy mole valley electrolyte (your words not mine ) aside from a couple who had high temps .All the calves recovered but it has taken the shine off them. Since all recovered it cannot be crypto or cocci so if it is not bacteria what is it that is contagious ??? Have had more serious outbreaks in past and find Synulox boluses work well. Again if it is not bacteria why are they responding to Synulox ?? Why can't calves over 7 days pick up bacteria ???
 

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