Seeing Less Blackgrass

[FarmerBruce]

I was spraying T2's yesterday and was really pleasantly surprised at the little amount of blackgrass visible compared to previous years! We do everything possible to prevent/control it and have a zero tolerance on it when in crops!! Am I winning the war, or am I in for an awful shock in a week or twos time now it's rained?
Is anyone else seeing this too?

 

[rob1]

lots appearing in the crops I was spraying for people yesterday even one that had been in maize for a couple of years, and seeing plenty from the road driving about, got a few patches in mine which need pulling

 

[franklin]

Just a good year for control We have done nothing really different. Just moist enough for good pre-ems, and a good window for early spring Atlantis where needed.

 

[warksfarmer]

I was spraying T2's yesterday and was really pleasantly surprised at the little amount of blackgrass visible compared to previous years! We do everything possible to prevent/control it and have a zero tolerance on it when in crops!! Am I winning the war, or am I in for an awful shock in a week or twos time now it's rained?
Is anyone else seeing this too?

Loads appeared here in the last 2 weeks. Even got it in a field that's been spring cropped for 5 years using zero till, and half returned to winter wheat using zero till this time. That bits full but the other half down to spring barley is currently clear. See pic.

Should also point out the wheat was zero tilled on 1st November 2016, so as late as possible and it had glyphosate post drilling and then herbicide obviously.

 

[Farmer Miggins]

Sorry to p*ss on the bonfire, huge amounts of very stunted BG under the canopy which will now pop-up now that it has rained. :-/

 

[snipe]

Thinking same here. Look very clean until you walk into a patch where you think there is only a couple, but small plants dotted around

 

[Two Tone]

We will never win the war against Blackgrass, but we might win a few battles.
Dry years might help. I've often found that taller crops help too. It's not because the taller crop is hiding it - there definitely isn't as much BG in a taller crop.

Are we using too much PGR that exacerbates this problem?

Does Atlantis itself have far too much of a PGR effect, possibly making the situation worse if it's ability to actually kill BG isn't effective enough?

If BG grows taller than the crop, have we created a situation where the BG stunts the crop even further, therefore reducing the crop yield even more?

Did the late frosts we had this year, act as a natural PGR reducing the need to apply anything like as much as usual?

I firmly believe that taller crops out-compete the BG, reducing its ability to stunt yields. Therefore we must question our usage of PGR far more. Using something like CCC is not only cheaper but won't be as effective in cold weather, which could be a good thing. Forget Modus and the likes of Terpal etc.
But you have just got to risk that they will remain standing by harvest time.

Is it better to take that risk than end up with a very stunted yield and an even worse BG situation in the future?

Really bad BG infestations will actually pull the crop down and completely smother it as if it was lodged anyway!
This is even worse than combining a lodged but weed free crop.


In our own situation here, yes there is still some BG in the Wheat that is just now starting to show above the crop. A lot more will do so after this rain. But the Winter Barley (both conventional and Hybrid) grown on our worst BG fields look very clean still so far. They are of course one hell of a lot taller that the Wheat!

Edit:
Wherever (if ever!) I am going to continue growing Wheat (which will only ever be on our lowest BG infested land from now on and will only ever be in a 1st wheat situation), I shall be choosing the tallest, most lodging resistant varieties I can find. Septoria resistance will be an added bonus. These traits are far more important to me than so called top yield. BG will rob me of far more yield than any potentially higher yielding, but shorter variety could possibly provide in benefit.
Simples (if only!)

 

[turbo]

100% control isn't going to happen but as long as what comes doesn't pull the yield down you will be okay,around here the worst control I have seen has been from late September drilling and that will depress yields without doubt.Forget what I just said by far the worst control this year is in the spring drilling,I would say on the worst land the next input will be roundup.

 

[Pieces_of_Eight]

even one that had been in maize for a couple of years

Maize after maize has wide rows, needs lots of cultivations and has a late harvest; so a perfect habitat for blackgrass.

Ten years of continuous maize and you might get close to exhausting the seed bank, if you can flush and spray 3 times between October and April (as long as contractors don't keep bringing more ).

 

[turbo]

Anyone who thinks dd will solve their bg problems are deluding theirselfs,plenty of September drilling has it this year. I am afraid mid October drilling is the only way forward and if the weather closes in so be it put a spring crop in

 

[Days of thunder]

Just been walking my fields the blackgrass is looking very well again. I am really going to have to alter rotation as blackgrass is winning the war. I was however thinking do other nations have blackgrass eg USA and are they allowed to use chemicals we are not permitted too?

 

[rob1]

Anyone who thinks dd will solve their bg problems are deluding theirselfs,plenty of September drilling has it this year. I am afraid mid October drilling is the only way forward and if the weather closes in so be it put a spring crop in

Dd wont cure anything but it does keep all the seed on the surface and not mixed in the profile. GOOD ploughing once every five/six years followed by minimal disturbance drilling would be a good routinue

 

[turbo]

Just been walking my fields the blackgrass is looking very well again. I am really going to have to alter rotation as blackgrass is winning the war. I was however thinking do other nations have blackgrass eg USA and are they allowed to use chemicals we are not permitted too?

I am lead to believe that basf have a chemical that they use in the USA that is very effective on bg,but it costs to much to get it registered in Europe so we carnt have it yet.

 

[turbo]

Dd wont cure anything but it does keep all the seed on the surface and not mixed in the profile. GOOD ploughing once every five/six years followed by minimal disturbance drilling would be a good routinue

But if what I read on the dd section on here is too be believed,under dd more worm action takes place and they take the crop residue down their holes so they must also take bg seeds down as well

 

[warksfarmer]

Anybody thinking zero till ends BG look at the attached picture. Field spring cropped and zero tilled for 5 years.

Zero tilled winter wheat at 600 seeds/m2 in 1st November 2016, glyphosate pre drilling in September and post drilling early November. Herbicide put on in March and now look at the BG on the left in the winter wheat.

On the right spring barley. Glyphosate late march. 600 seeds/m2 sown early April after a light disc/press. Combi drilled and rolled when emerged. Herbicide and 80kg/ha N. Its clean as a whistle presently.

Zero till does not get rid of BG but spring cropping holds it back so decision made this 60ac field will be in permanent spring cropping for the forseeable future!

 

[turbo]

Anybody thinking zero till ends BG look at the attached picture. Field spring cropped and zero tilled for 5 years.

Zero tilled winter wheat at 600 seeds/m2 in 1st November 2016, glyphosate pre drilling in September and post drilling early November. Herbicide put on in March and now look at the BG on the left in the winter wheat.

On the right spring barley. Glyphosate late march. 600 seeds/m2 sown early April after a light disc/press. Combi drilled and rolled when emerged. Herbicide and 80kg/ha N. Its clean as a whistle presently.

Zero till does not get rid of BG but spring cropping holds it back so decision made this 60ac field will be in permanent spring cropping for the forseeable future!

Even though I agree with what you say it's a bit unfair to blame any system if you don't put any herbicides on until march,I think you would have seen a different result if a good pre em had been applied in November

 

[texelburger]

We will never win the war against Blackgrass, but we might win a few battles.
Dry years might help. I've often found that taller crops help too. It's not because the taller crop is hiding it - there definitely isn't as much BG in a taller crop.

Are we using too much PGR that exacerbates this problem?

Does Atlantis itself have far too much of a PGR effect, possibly making the situation worse if it's ability to actually kill BG isn't effective enough?

If BG grows taller than the crop, have we created a situation where the BG stunts the crop even further, therefore reducing the crop yield even more?

Did the late frosts we had this year, act as a natural PGR reducing the need to apply anything like as much as usual?

I firmly believe that taller crops out-compete the BG, reducing its ability to stunt yields. Therefore we must question our usage of PGR far more. Using something like CCC is not only cheaper but won't be as effective in cold weather, which could be a good thing. Forget Modus and the likes of Terpal etc.
But you have just got to risk that they will remain standing by harvest time.

Is it better to take that risk than end up with a very stunted yield and an even worse BG situation in the future?

Really bad BG infestations will actually pull the crop down and completely smother it as if it was lodged anyway!
This is even worse than combining a lodged but weed free crop.


In our own situation here, yes there is still some BG in the Wheat that is just now starting to show above the crop. A lot more will do so after this rain. But the Winter Barley (both conventional and Hybrid) grown on our worst BG fields look very clean still so far. They are of course one hell of a lot taller that the Wheat!

Edit:
Wherever (if ever!) I am going to continue growing Wheat (which will only ever be on our lowest BG infested land from now on and will only ever be in a 1st wheat situation), I shall be choosing the tallest, most lodging resistant varieties I can find. Septoria resistance will be an added bonus. These traits are far more important to me than so called top yield. BG will rob me of far more yield than any potentially higher yielding, but shorter variety could possibly provide in benefit.
Simples (if only!)

You should try Edgar then.Its tall ,stiff and very good for Septoria resistance .Meant to be good at smothering BG as well.We grew it for about 3 years but stopped as it wasn't quite yielding as high as the other varieties on the farm.We have no BG so height is not so important for us.

 

[Clive]

DD won't fix a grass weed problem and neither will late drilling imo - pee'ing in the wind springs to mind !

A proper rotation with a lot of diverse spring break crops and lots of different groups of actives in a zero till (ideally mixed ) farming system and you might just have a chance

 

[turbo]

DD won't fix a grass weed problem and neither will late drilling imo - pee'ing in the wind springs to mind !

A proper rotation with a lot of diverse spring break crops and lots of different groups of actives in a zero till (ideally mixed ) farming system and you might just have a chance

What spring breaks can you grow where you use different actives in?

 

[rob1]

Says the man without BG .

Best way is to grow grass for a couple of years and stop it setting seed