Selectively Breeding Sheep

[Steve M]

I have had my own EasyCare sheep for two years now jumping between this and that farmers land. It has all been a bit uncertain but now I have a tenancy I'm thinking about my aims with them.

My main aim is to have a closed flock selectively bred to suit the area I'm in. In that never existing 'perfect world', I would want a ewe that gives 1.8 lambs on average, rears it to 36/38kg in 4 - 6 months on grass alone with the only supplement being a salt block.

From now to then is the difficult bit. Knowing when to step in and treat for worms or when flies are bothering an animal too much. Sorting, dosing and selling.

My questions are;

Does anyone do this, and if so, what advice would you give?
What concerns did you have?
What progress have you made?
Was it worth it?
How did you choose/get rams?

I want to be able to say that my sheep are adapted to my environment and perform on it.

 

[GTB]

In it's very simplest form selective breeding is simply keeping your best ewe lambs for breeding. When I say best I mean the ones who have grown well and thrived under your particular system/conditions. When buying a Ram, you need to look for a type that you think will also suit your system and also suit your ewes. All the better if the Ram has been bred and selected on EBV's but this isn't the be all and end all IMHO. On a hill farm especially I'd say buying a Ram that can hack it is more important than figures initially at least.

 

[JD-Kid]

buy good rams
cull hard or at least don't breed replacements out of off type ewes
set goals and work on them don't set too many for a start or to slower gain
alot of growth will come from mangerment so brush up on mangerment of grasslands etc
tiwning keep lambs out of twinning ewes and buy in rams that were twins also frist lambers that have twins then to carry on as twinners or at least a better chance
eid or some form of recording
big thing we picked up on is weight gains but watch any around the time of vax's etc etc that can rock there worlds ..

 

[jemski]

I am doing this kind of thing. I'd say recording is key! As is culling, but pick the most important traits to focus on first. For me, here, it's maternal ability and lameness. Next up will be shitty arses and fly strike. Then eventually will come looks, in the hope to create a more uniform looking flock. But right now that's not important to me.
I buy my rams from a farm that is a fair bit harder than mine, and they barely see a cake bag. In fact, I've already picked out two Rams this year and they haven't been fed cake yet at all. Fortunately he has both highlanders and terminals so I can get all my rams from one place.
Progress wise ewes are scanning better and I barely have to lamb any. The ewelambs were a joy this year. The last one lambed last week outside (she was an accidental late lamb herself) I had to assist as the lamb had got a bit big on the grass and had a leg back. She loved the lamb immediately and let me milk her in the middle of the field with no restraint. She hasn't stopped talking to that lamb since - even when she's eating and got a mouth full she's still chatting to her lamb!
They are rearing lambs better off grass, less tail ender lambs. It's still a work in progress, and there is room for more improvement, but I feel they are heading in the right direction. It's definitely worth it, but I'd say you have to be in it for the long game to get real results.

 

[GTB]

cull hard or at least don't breed replacements out of off type ewes

Good point. It's a good idea to cross your poorer ewes with a terminal sire rather than chuck them away. Obviously this means you're breeding replacements out of your best stock.

 

[jemski]

Good point. It's a good idea to cross your poorer ewes with a terminal sire rather than chuck them away. Obviously this means you're breeding replacements out of your best stock.

Yes I forgot to mention this. The top 3rd performing ewes go to a maternal ram, and the rest terminals.

 

[Man_in_black]

@Tim W

 

[Woolless]

As above, recording of some type so that you can make breeding decisions is key. This can be as simple as ear notching anything that needs assistance or individual treatment, cull or put to a terminal sire. This is what I do with my commercial Easycares.

I also record some of the flock with Signet, similar rules apply plus selection on performance. Third lambing on a bigger scale and hassles not eliminated but getting less each year.

 

[hindmaist]

[QUOTE="

I want to be able to say that my sheep are adapted to my environment and perform on it.[/QUOTE]

Saying it is the easiest thing in the world.Plenty folk in the sheep world do "saying".Not enough do "doing".

 

[JD-Kid]

yep we

Good point. It's a good idea to cross your poorer ewes with a terminal sire rather than chuck them away. Obviously this means you're breeding replacements out of your best stock.

have a off type mob OK ewes but culled on black spots ot just don't like there wool type etc lambs from these are all sold not even looked at to go in to flock
we also are not keeping many out of singles do we aim to keep ewe replacments out of better ewes scanned as twinners
in years to come will have more info on ewes and tend to put better rams over repeat twinners

 

[Tim W]

Does anyone do this, and if so, what advice would you give?
What concerns did you have?
What progress have you made?
Was it worth it?
How did you choose/get rams?

As everyone else has outlined there are plenty of simple on farm options and the key is data
1) measure performance
2) Analyse to select the best
3) Cull the underperformers

If you are really keen you can measure individual FEC , scan for backfat/muscle depths/genotype for scrapie/myomax etcand then use BLUP to get a more detailed and accurate analysis (www.signetfbc.co.uk)
We do this on a large scale with shedding sheep (www.sig.uk.com) and have made great progress in worm resistance, growth, lamb survival, carcase quality etc
It's not cheap and you need a good size population to make it work well but it pays
If you're interested come and see what we do ---Warminster is not too far away ---I have been using this system for 25+ years and can recommend it
Failing that I can always sell you a ram

We will be at NSA Southwest Sheep event http://www.nationalsheep.org.uk/sheep-south-west/ along with lots of other ovine inspired mayhem ----

 

[spin cycle]

trying to do this but not the best record keeper...plus not easy if you're trying to build numbers quickly.....this year though i only half docked the tails of any ewe lambs i definitley didn't want to keep so they're easily identified

 

[gatepost]

I would ask myself , if my Easycares are fulfilling the role, how could they be improved if not, what type of sheep are your neighbours keeping in the area, grass growth pattern for the area will dictate ewe condition and on going productivity, keep your options open and your cheque book closed, and good luck, Ive kept a closed flock now for 40yrs, still haven't got it right.

 

[Steve M]

Some good replies. So how about this for a question;

How many of you are maintaining lambing percentages whilst, say, no longer broad spectrum worming ewes or lambs?
Or broad spectrum anything for that matter...?

 

[Frank-the-Wool]

Some good replies. So how about this for a question;

How many of you are maintaining lambing percentages whilst, say, no longer broad spectrum worming ewes or lambs?
Or broad spectrum anything for that matter...?

Lambing % has more to do with condition of the ewe and genetics.
Worming should only be done if there is a measurable threat. The majority of ewes should not need worming, however there are occasions when you need to at important times when the ewes are under stress in the Spring which will help reduce the worm burden on pastures sometimes.
This year so far we have only just needed to start worming lambs and only those born in March. The ewes that were in poorer condition were given a worm drench pre lambing, those in good order were not. You do need to know the ground that your sheep graze on and understand the risk of Fluke. Doing nothing when you have a Fluke problem will reduce your sheep numbers very quickly.

Your question is valid in that those people who are always vaccinating and treating their sheep on a regular basis will have very high costs. Sometimes the best thing with sheep is to do nothing at all!! Apart from pick up the dead ones of course.

 

[Tim W]

Some good replies. So how about this for a question;

How many of you are maintaining lambing percentages whilst, say, no longer broad spectrum worming ewes or lambs?
Or broad spectrum anything for that matter...?

No worming of ewes here ---they still function well
lambs ----you will have to work at but if you farm the same land year after year you will have to have a good rotational plan & probably some anthelmintic use or suffer the consequences
Broad spectrum anything? Clostridial vaccination you may get away with for a while (I did without for many years but when it hit it caused mayhem)
What else do people use routinely?

 

[AvonValleyFarmer]

No worming of ewes here ---they still function well
lambs ----you will have to work at but if you farm the same land year after year you will have to have a good rotational plan & probably some anthelmintic use or suffer the consequences
Broad spectrum anything? Clostridial vaccination you may get away with for a while (I did without for many years but when it hit it caused mayhem)
What else do people use routinely?

The kettle

 

[TexelBen]

No worming of ewes here ---they still function well
lambs ----you will have to work at but if you farm the same land year after year you will have to have a good rotational plan & probably some anthelmintic use or suffer the consequences
Broad spectrum anything? Clostridial vaccination you may get away with for a while (I did without for many years but when it hit it caused mayhem)
What else do people use routinely?

Trace element drench or bolus, scabivax for the lambs and clostridial (Ovivac/heptavac) for lambs and ewes

 

[Nithsdale]

Some good replies. So how about this for a question;

How many of you are maintaining lambing percentages whilst, say, no longer broad spectrum worming ewes or lambs?
Or broad spectrum anything for that matter...?

Stopped worming ewes 4-5 years ago here.
No negative effects from it - infact, i can't tell a difference, at all, in how the ewes do.

Ewes are only dosed now 2-3 times a year, for fluke, and vaccinated pre-lambing. (And vaccinated for abortion as gimmers).

Certainly no detriment to lambing %. Whilst changing breeding/finding my own breed 'type' through this period I have increased number of lambs reared per ewe from between 1.4-1.5 to a steady 1.6 with 1.65-1.7 the aim

 

[Guiggs]

I only work ewes that are particularly dirty and they are ion borrowed time...
This year I out all my singles on the land that seems to be more wormy and granted it's been a dry spring but the lambs have exceeded my expectations, looks like I have quite a few fit!