Self propelled to Trailed

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Well I’m just glad folks are buying this new kit so in 20 years time it can filter down to peasants like me

I'd be concerned that the volume of simple low tech sprayers aren't being sold new to feed the s/h market of the future. I'm doing my bit - simple centifrugal pump & a teejet 844 controller could be from 1995, but it's only 3yo.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Blimey, a new sp must be serious coin! 724 will be iro £140k? Horsch 5000/36 I'd guess will bray a hole in another hundred grand. Is a comparable sized sp really a third of a million quid?

self prop was 260k for same spec as our 100k trailed

the traction is already here and drills, ferts, carts and cultivates so our extra cost is only the increase in R&M created by extra hours - most cereal farms have a tractor avaible, its takes less than 1 min to pit on or drop off so the idea ties out a tractor full time is a bit of a myth IMO
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
self prop was 260k for same spec as our 100k trailed

the traction is already here and drills, ferts, carts and cultivates so our extra cost is only the increase in R&M created by extra hours - most cereal farms have a tractor avaible, its takes less than 1 min to pit on or droop off so the idea ties out a tractor full time is a bit of a myth IMO

I know. I was saying that 10yrs ago when Bateman's were the latest must have. A vario tractor on a decent trailed sprayer with a steering axle takes some beating.

There's a 300hp tractor locally on a 3t mounted fert spinner. Runs at 24m & does 30kph. How he gets turned beats me. When does a trailed spreader make more sense?
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Interesting.

What element makes the difference? Steering? Suspension? Tech?
Driver comfort has always been better in a decent tractor than a hydro sp, but they still bend in the middle, a key thing that doesn't bother me one not,but some folk seem to struggle with.
Genuinely curious, not having a pop.

Mostly the tech I guess, the boom control And suspension is exceptional on these, others will catch up but right now its hard to suggest its not class leading

It‘s very quick to drop on and off (like as quick as dropping off grain trailer so in no way ties up a tractor). The rest of the tech is very self prop like filling etc and the steering connected to tractor GPS makes it a lot easier than some I have used in the past, ISO seems very integrated with the tractor so no additional boxes or joysticks etc, for a big machine (36/6000) in our case it just doesn’t feel big. Combined with a vario transmission like the Fendt has it really is much more like a self prop than any trailed I have used in the past with gears, pto’s poor suspension etc

All comes at a a price of course but given the saving vs the same spec Horsch self prop its really a bit of a no brainier financially

The tech is also a concern - ie without it it just doesn’t work !
 
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Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I know. I was saying that 10yrs ago when Bateman's were the latest must have. A vario tractor on a decent trailed sprayer with a steering axle takes some beating.

There's a 300hp tractor locally on a 3t mounted fert spinner. Runs at 24m & does 30kph. How he gets turned beats me. When does a trailed spreader make more sense?

Talking new (used is a separate subject re finance) I think self props only really make for root and higher value crop growers these day

the gap in cost has got so much bigger, our last Bateman cost 100k about 13 years ago, at the time a trailed woukd have cost say 40k ? - so a gap of 60k ish - today that gap in more like 150k plus
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
Well I’m just glad folks are buying this new kit so in 20 years time it can filter down to peasants like me

As long as you are handy with a laptop that is ! The downside of this clever modern kit is you really cant fix it with spanner’s any longer !
 
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Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Mostly the tech I guess, the boom control And suspension is exceptional on these, others will catch up but right now its hard to suggest its not class leading

It‘s very quick to drop on and off (like as quick as dropping off grain trailer so in no way ties up a tractor). The rest of the tech is very self prop like filling etc and the steering connected to tractor GPS makes it a lot easier than some I have used in the past, ISO seems very integrated with the tractor so no additional boxes or joysticks etc, for a big machine (36/6000) in our case it just doesn’t feel big. Combined with a vario transmission like the Fendt has it really is much more like a self prop than any trailed I have used in the past with gears, pto’s poor suspension etc

All comes at a a price of course but given the saving vs the same spec Horsch self prop its really a bit of a no brainier financially

The tech is also a concern - ie without it it just doesn’t work !

I've had a hydraulic pump, steering suspended sprayer axle, with a teejet 844 controller on a suspended vario tractor since 2006. Tried a hydro sp for a year in 2015. Not for me thank you.

Simplicity is good. Valves with handles instead of electric motors. Decent sized induction bowl. 844E controller is proven simple reliable tech.

It has air shut off and 10section auto shut off, but I can put it on pretty much any tractor just with the 844 and drive it manually with 4 sections should I need to. It needs a decent oil supply, but that's been provided by even 20yo tractors in the past, so not a drama.

Much of the fancier modern tech is a concern to the 5-10yo sprayer buyer. Will this affect residual values going forward?
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Trailed would be fine for us 75% of the time. Its the other 25% is the issue. I don't think we would have got any of our pre ems done last autumn if we had a trailed sprayer. The other problem is field obstacles, we have over 50, how easy is it to go round a pole with a trailed?
 

Spud

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
YO62
Trailed would be fine for us 75% of the time. Its the other 25% is the issue. I don't think we would have got any of our pre ems done last autumn if we had a trailed sprayer. The other problem is field obstacles, we have over 50, how easy is it to go round a pole with a trailed?

Why? Have insufficient tractors?
My trailed sprayer sits on an older backup tractor during taty planting and harvesting seasons. This also maximises hours on the newer tractors and keeps pressure off the older ones, makes pre ems happen, yet allows me a good modern tractor for the main of the spraying season.

Re poles etc - it's no worse than an sp (why should it be?) My 4000/24 trailed has a 30% smaller turning circle than the same capacity sp we had before it.
 

Clive

Staff Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lichfield
I've had a hydraulic pump, steering suspended sprayer axle, with a teejet 844 controller on a suspended vario tractor since 2006. Tried a hydro sp for a year in 2015. Not for me thank you.

Simplicity is good. Valves with handles instead of electric motors. Decent sized induction bowl. 844E controller is proven simple reliable tech.

It has air shut off and 10section auto shut off, but I can put it on pretty much any tractor just with the 844 and drive it manually with 4 sections should I need to. It needs a decent oil supply, but that's been provided by even 20yo tractors in the past, so not a drama.

Much of the fancier modern tech is a concern to the 5-10yo sprayer buyer. Will this affect residual values going forward?

only time will tell how the higher tech kit of today will filter down in the future, I guess skills evolve with the kit, the next generation of fitters and farmers will be more comfortable with a laptop and this kind of tech than a spanner
 

snarling bee

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Bedfordshire
Why? Have insufficient tractors?
My trailed sprayer sits on an older backup tractor during taty planting and harvesting seasons. This also maximises hours on the newer tractors and keeps pressure off the older ones, makes pre ems happen, yet allows me a good modern tractor for the main of the spraying season.

Re poles etc - it's no worse than an sp (why should it be?) My 4000/24 trailed has a 30% smaller turning circle than the same capacity sp we had before it.
Its nothing to do with tractor availability. If I was to go to a tractor powered solution I would go mounted. Our SP is 4WS and turns tighter than any tractor. Dragging a trailed sprayer in marginal conditions on heavy sloping clay would make an even bigger mess than we can make with a 7 tonne SP. You are obviously more skilled than we would be at reversing up to field obstacles.
 

teslacoils

Member
Arable Farmer
Location
Lincolnshire
If I only owned one machine with an engine, it would be an sp sprayer. Would just hire in a tractor. Can I justify a sp sprayer on 260ac / 150ac arable? Yup. In the same way I'd rather hire a crawler for a week than fit duals to my tractor.

Still got a nice 24m trailed chafer guardian for sale.......just sayin'.
 

Drillman

Member
Mixed Farmer
As long as you are handy with a laptop that is ! The downside of this clever modern kit is you really cant fix it with spanner’s any longer !
That’s been said about every generation of machine since tractors took over from horses!

I find by the time stuff gets to double digit age there is plenty experience out there on what goes wrong and how to fix it.

anything not double digit age is usually out of my price range so solves all my problems?
 
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mo!

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
York
That’s been said about every generation of machine since tractors took over from horses!

I find by the time stuff gets to double digit age there is plenty experience out there on what goes wrong and how to fix it.

anything not double digit age is usually out of my price range so solves all my problems[emoji23]
I remember when we bought our first 3000 series massey, all the neighbours said we were mad and the electronics would finish us off. That tractor left with 10k and had never given any electronic trouble. The engine blew up at 4500hrs though. New tech I would avoid, high tech I wouldn't.
 

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Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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