Self sufficency

[Red Fred]

I reckon the majority should be thankful for farmers as it means they dont have to be farmers and can have a better paid job and plenty free time and spare money. Am i worng ? if everyone had to grow there own food they wouldnt have time to go to work. ?

Isn't this how civilization came about in the first place. Farming meant people could live in cities and provide specialist skills, and form the basis of a money economy.

 

[Old McDonald]

I wonder how man managed to survive and thrive with out all the modern must haves and essentials you seem to allude to?
Embracing self sufficiency also carries with it the need and maybe moral duty to, recycle and up cycle at every turn.
Want not. Waste not.
Still.
I doubt there's much re or up cycling to be had in poor countries such as Portugal.

With lots of labour. Man power built the pyramids.

I am not saying they are "must haves". We could all live in existing buildings and use only open fires for cooking and heating, but my response was directly in reply to another post, not the generalities of aiming for self-sufficiency, or how we could survive.

I agree with you about the need for using things again. Some of the equipment I have made incorporates items that have had at least one useful life before. Old oak wine barrels have particularly useful wood. The iron hoops can be put to use too on occasions. Whenever possible I avoid buying materials, but there have been a few times when I have needed to buy steel and I have no hesitation in doing so. I also need to buy welding rods.

You obviously do not know the Portuguese. When money is in short supply it is indeed essential to "Waste not". Also to "make do and mend". Recycling is taken very seriously here and what really cannot be used again is burned in power stations wherever possible, producing a few percentage points of electricity.

 

[Old McDonald]

Isn't this how civilization came about in the first place. Farming meant people could live in cities and provide specialist skills, and form the basis of a money economy.

This is where my idea of a group comes in. As a family, plus my son's best man's family, and one single man we know nearby, I believe we have the necessary skills to keep us all in food, raiments and a sound home, as well as being able to operate machinery.

In a worst case scenario there would be many people with similar skills, and many people with the other skills we do not have. Bartering food, or some of our skills, with those who have no land (very few people in Portugal do not have access to some family land) is possible.

If I was back in Scotland when this "worst case" occurred then the scenario would change a little, but not a great deal. We might not be able to produce our own oil for machinery fuel. We would probably then need somebody who grew OSR to do some bartering.

N.B. You can tell when it is raining where posters live by the people who are posting when they would normally be working.

 

[renewablejohn]

Are you telling us that you can provide all your needs yourself? Do you have the skills of a vet, medical doctor, builder, carpenter, metal worker, mechanic, electrician etc etc? Producing and storing food is only a small and easily achievable part of self-sufficiency.

Do you actually produce all your own fuel, heat, light and power asyou say, or do you buy some things? We could all live without the exotic fruits, although growing some is quite achievable as you have pointed out.

Your ideas about wood and aluminium tools are all very well, but they do not last in ground engaging work. How are you going to fabricate the aluminium?

Can you do all that is necessary in the time available?

Do you really need the vet and the doctor. Mankind has survived for thousands of years without them. As for builder, carpenter, metal worker. mechanic, electrician all easy skills to learn most of which I picked up at school in woodwork and metalwork classes. Recently renovating the farmhouse so had to learn the skill of Lime Mortar and Lime plaster on a 2 day course which I have successfully applied in reconstructing a 2ft thick wall then lime plastered it and the ceiling using traditional methods. Produce not only our own fuel but supply many households in the village with logs on a commercial basis. Cooking and heating and electric provided by biomass. Can produce a diesel substitute using biomass if the government would allow me to use it. Veg all grown on a no dig basis.
Aluminium is easy to work with a solar kiln and sand moulds.
Time is not a problem if you have efficient systems.

 

[Chasingmytail]

There is also the ability to feed your family quality, sustainable foods with little to no residue. Taking an apple off the tree and eating withing a day is without a shadow of doubt more nutritious and beneficial to our childrens health than buying a £2 pack from Aldi thats come from New Zealand - considering the pesticides, air miles, pollution, the storage and the actual spoil (breaking down) of the fruit. The amount of processing that is going on, the additions to the processing all must come at a price in future. I can whizz up some mayo with oil, eggs (own) mustard, white wine vinegar and seasoning while read the ingredients on a mass manufactured jar. The actual value of the foods we are buying off the shelf cannot be anywhere near the value of pre/post war diets.

Ive done my outdoor chores this morning and catching up on paperwork between messing on social media! But then If I have time to mess on social media then I have time to make something decent in the kitchen or go up to the poly and sort that out. Perhaps our values have changed and peoples priorities have also - goes without saying really as consumers put little effort into buying food and consider luxuries and holiday planning priorities.

 

[david norris]

is anyone on here truly self sufficient?
I.e. Their own milk meat and veg, electricity from solar or wind, fire from their own timber
Obviously fuels for cars and council tax would have to be accounted for but is anyone living the good life?

Its very hard to gain total self sufficiency check out this link we provide low carbon systems for Hot Water made in East Anglia

 

[Chasingmytail]

also add if you read and follow people like Martin Crawford with Edible forest creations you can eat large varieties of foods out of the norm and you can easily grow pepper tree in the UK to supply own table. I havent got one yet its on my list.

 

[KMA]

I'm planning on making a range of stackable frames to go on top of the raised beds, the sides will come from the slats on Nell's old bed and I'll use the plastic bag the mattress came in to make a couple 'cold frame' frames. haven't got enough slats for more than a couple of frames though

Tatties are planted in old mineral tubs, I use old plastic wrap cores for whole range of things, old wrap is used as a weed proof cover. The 5litre water bottles get the bottoms cut off and make pretty good cloches. Have a whole load of sandstone and clay drainage tiles waiting for a use, will probably got a home for most of the sandstone but scratching my head a bit over the clay tiles.

 

[Red Fred]

Listening to the radio just now on the tractor, and voters were describing their jobs- an example was selling crystals and telling people their chakra (?) I think it was. Another on there said her daughter was at uni doing a degree. "What in?" 'Oh, rock drumming!'. Heaven help us if us lot can't make a go of it after the zombie apocolypse.

 

[New Puritan]

@renewablejohn -

Do you really need the vet and the doctor. Mankind has survived for thousands of years without them. As for builder, carpenter, metal worker. mechanic, electrician all easy skills to learn most of which I picked up at school in woodwork and metalwork classes. Recently renovating the farmhouse so had to learn the skill of Lime Mortar and Lime plaster on a 2 day course which I have successfully applied in reconstructing a 2ft thick wall then lime plastered it and the ceiling using traditional methods. Produce not only our own fuel but supply many households in the village with logs on a commercial basis. Cooking and heating and electric provided by biomass. Can produce a diesel substitute using biomass if the government would allow me to use it. Veg all grown on a no dig basis.
Aluminium is easy to work with a solar kiln and sand moulds.
Time is not a problem if you have efficient systems.

What diesel substitute could you make, and what from? I'd quite like to run my tractor on biodiesel but have been wary of knackering it.

 

[abitdaft]

Listening to the radio just now on the tractor, and voters were describing their jobs- an example was selling crystals and telling people their chakra (?) I think it was. Another on there said her daughter was at uni doing a degree. "What in?" 'Oh, rock drumming!'. Heaven help us if us lot can't make a go of it after the zombie apocolypse.

Been reading this thread with interest, if there was some sort of critical event, my fear would not be could I put food etc in front of my family, it would be the rest of society that cant. How would you protect your family and resources against the zombies?

 

[renewablejohn]

@renewablejohn -



What diesel substitute could you make, and what from? I'd quite like to run my tractor on biodiesel but have been wary of knackering it.

Its charcoal slurry made from torrefied wood, water and oil seed rape. Simple process similar to making peanut butter but getting government approval is proving impossible I presume due to the fuel duty implications and the effect on the oil industry. Actually far cleaner than current diesel so might be heading up the approval list.

 

[renewablejohn]

Been reading this thread with interest, if there was some sort of critical event, my fear would not be could I put food etc in front of my family, it would be the rest of society that cant. How would you protect your family and resources against the zombies?

Thats the real problem.

 

[DRC]

Been reading this thread with interest, if there was some sort of critical event, my fear would not be could I put food etc in front of my family, it would be the rest of society that cant. How would you protect your family and resources against the zombies?

You wouldn't . Millions of starving people would soon overcome your veg patch, and slaughter your house cow.
Best keep mainstream Ag profitable ( any politicians reading this)

 

[Yale]

Solar panels and electric car can get around one of those

Like the fact you can put the solar panels on as part of the business to run a vehicle for private use.

 

[Red Fred]

Dad used to say, at the time of the "grain mountains", 'If we produce 5 days food too much, they complain that we're spongers. If we produce 5 days too little, civilization collapses' You can see his point.

 

[renewablejohn]

Thats the real problem.

Might stand a fighting chance here.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57088594.html

 

[Danllan]

Been reading this thread with interest, if there was some sort of critical event, my fear would not be could I put food etc in front of my family, it would be the rest of society that cant. How would you protect your family and resources against the zombies?

Vote Conservative or, of course, you could pray, because that solves everything... .

 

[KMA]

They'd have died killed each other off or died of starvation by the time they reached the two places I've got in mind. One of them could (did in neolithic times) support what seems to have been a reasonable sized community.

 

[Old McDonald]

I can whizz up some mayo with oil, eggs (own) mustard, white wine vinegar and seasoning

So the only thing you are providing is the egg. This is the great problem. Most of us who have posted on here make an effort to produce what we can, but there are limitations no matter where we live. As it happens I could provide all except the seasoning. My wife cooks without salt and we never use spices (although did put a small amount into chutney and piccallili last year) so we can live without them. We use herbs quite a lot and have them in the garden or wild.

It is indeed laudable what you are achieving towards helping yourselves, but I think you will agree that there is a limit to what can reasonably be achieved.