Self sufficency

[ARW]

To the interested you should read the book "sapians"
It gives great insight to our race and history, and that we were far better off in the simple times of foraging for fruit and berries and the odd kill teaching our children how to survive and taking things day by day in the tribe.
When we invented farming everything changed and we had a reason to to get up, reason to fight, and became territorial of our land.
It's very interesting

 

[Old Boar]

There can be a number of reasons to try to be a bit self sufficient. It could be cultural, economic or just because you think the food tastes better!
There was a movement in the early 1970's to "return to the country" with young folk buying smallholdings and larger places and setting up communes around here. I bought this place at the same auction as a country house was bought for a commune up the road (which lasted a fair old time!).
For me it was partly economics, partly because I liked the way of life and partly to give good food to my children. I never wanted to be fully self sufficient, there was only one of me, but did look into harnessing the stream for energy (not enough fall ). Solar was not really around, apart from banks of plastic bottles!

 

[caveman]

Gasify (? ) wood chunks to run your tractor.
Or you could run a horse or two or a team of oxen for power. Sustainable.
Renewable and a good source of protein.

 

[Old McDonald]

Do you really need the vet and the doctor. Mankind has survived for thousands of years without them.

I am not saying I would actively seek out two such professionals, but they happen to be part of the family team I would envisage being necessary. Mankind survived without many things, but it is nice to have some modern knowledge.

As for builder, carpenter, metal worker. mechanic, electrician all easy skills to learn most of which I picked up at school in woodwork and metalwork classes

You must have had a remarkable teacher to find time in class to also give you a reasonable standard in those other skills too.

Recently renovating the farmhouse so had to learn the skill of Lime Mortar and Lime plaster on a 2 day course which I have successfully applied in reconstructing a 2ft thick wall then lime plastered it and the ceiling using traditional methods

Well done.

Produce not only our own fuel but supply many households in the village with logs on a commercial basis. Cooking and heating and electric provided by biomass. Can produce a diesel substitute using biomass if the government would allow me to use it. Veg all grown on a no dig basis.

Your biomass system must take a bit of time to look after. Also growing all your own vegetables, and you have a log business, and farm too. You must put in long hours every day to do all that single handed. How many hours a week?

How do you make the charcoal? In a kiln or covered stack? Why not just use rapeseed oil for fuel if you have it available?

Aluminium is easy to work with a solar kiln and sand moulds.

What items of equipment or tools have you made with this method? How do you find they wear compared to steel? How do you source your aluminium to make them?

Time is not a problem if you have efficient systems.

Time is a problem, no matter how efficient your systems. Until about 15 years ago I worked over 100 hours a week. I cannot do that anymore. I still run the farm single handed, with assistance from my wife at critical times like picking olives, or when it takes two people to do a job. I know that to be anywhere approaching self-sufficiency I would need more help, and more skills – which the others have, including the doctor and vet.

You might think I have asked a lot of questions, but I, and I am sure other posters, would like to know how to increase the efficiency of each person, not necessarily to your level where you can do it all yourself, but to a level where it is all “doable” to use modern parlance. Or alternatively to increase our own efficiency so that we can achieve at least a greater degree of self-reliance.

 

[renewablejohn]

I am not saying I would actively seek out two such professionals, but they happen to be part of the family team I would envisage being necessary. Mankind survived without many things, but it is nice to have some modern knowledge.



You must have had a remarkable teacher to find time in class to also give you a reasonable standard in those other skills too.



Well done.



Your biomass system must take a bit of time to look after. Also growing all your own vegetables, and you have a log business, and farm too. You must put in long hours every day to do all that single handed. How many hours a week?

How do you make the charcoal? In a kiln or covered stack? Why not just use rapeseed oil for fuel if you have it available?



What items of equipment or tools have you made with this method? How do you find they wear compared to steel? How do you source your aluminium to make them?



Time is a problem, no matter how efficient your systems. Until about 15 years ago I worked over 100 hours a week. I cannot do that anymore. I still run the farm single handed, with assistance from my wife at critical times like picking olives, or when it takes two people to do a job. I know that to be anywhere approaching self-sufficiency I would need more help, and more skills – which the others have, including the doctor and vet.

You might think I have asked a lot of questions, but I, and I am sure other posters, would like to know how to increase the efficiency of each person, not necessarily to your level where you can do it all yourself, but to a level where it is all “doable” to use modern parlance. Or alternatively to increase our own efficiency so that we can achieve at least a greater degree of self-reliance.

A vet and doctor are really not a lot of use unless they have the modern medicine to go with it. Without that where back to herbal remedies and the witch doctor.
Mr Brown excellent woodwork and metalwork teacher. The readers digest teak coffee table with sliding top and lignum vitae chess board still going strong after over 40 years of use.
Log business typical example of efficiency. Only touch the timber once on the log processor rest of the time mechanical handling. Biomass plant virtually all automatic. Veg grown on the sow, transplant,harvest, mantra so very little time required as you only touch the plants 3 times. Weeds and pests eliminated by weed free loam and protective netting. Auto watering system. At this time of year veg when its busy is a Sat morning job rest of year probably 2 hrs per week. Thats growing time not harvesting.
Dont make charcoal its torrefied wood using thermal oil and a flat plate dryer. Why use 100% rapeseed oil when you can make the same rapeseed oil go 10 times further by mixing it with torrefied wood and water. Torrefied wood is my by product and water is free.
Never needed to make tools yet just responding to your comment about tools and suggesting in a self sufficient world the lower melting point of aluminium is well within the self sufficient range of a solar kiln and sand casting is an easy skill for making tools. As for aluminium for tools I have a standard hoe and dutch hoe of aluminium and I would now not go back to wooden shafted equivalents. Pity they didn't have them when I used to go hoeing sugar beet.

 

[phillipe]

If you grew your veg in weed free soil and covered your crop with netting then you would not come back from holiday to weeds and pests. Problem with the supermarket food is you lose the fresh taste.

Really? Weeds appear as if by magic ,weed free soil my ars e

 

[New Puritan]

Its charcoal slurry made from torrefied wood, water and oil seed rape. Simple process similar to making peanut butter but getting government approval is proving impossible I presume due to the fuel duty implications and the effect on the oil industry. Actually far cleaner than current diesel so might be heading up the approval list.

This sounds interesting. What Gov. approval do you need for it? Is it in terms of being able to sell it commercially, and so HMRC need to know what duty rate to give it?

 

[New Puritan]

Might stand a fighting chance here.

http://www.rightmove.co.uk/property-for-sale/property-57088594.html

That looks nice, although rising sea levels might pose a problem in the medium term. I recently saw this: http://www.lambertandfoster.co.uk/property/00000106 - I like the defensive position, especially for somewhere in the SE of England. It's not far from me in terms of distance, but sadly I am a very long way from buying land for £820k.

 

[KMA]

I sometimes use an old roll of silage wrap to keep the weeds at bay.

 

[renewablejohn]

Really? Weeds appear as if by magic ,weed free soil my ars e

Really? Weeds appear as if by magic ,weed free soil my ars e

Try using Erin multi purpose compost with deep pots and see how much easier growing veg is without weeds. Once you realise this then the next step is to make your own weed free compost. Its what commercial growers do but thanks to cheap electric from solar it makes sense on a smaller scale.

 

[renewablejohn]

This sounds interesting. What Gov. approval do you need for it? Is it in terms of being able to sell it commercially, and so HMRC need to know what duty rate to give it?

Yes commercial approval.

 

[Old McDonald]

A vet and doctor are really not a lot of use unless they have the modern medicine to go with it. Without that where back to herbal remedies and the witch doctor.

A lot of work of both vets and doctors does not need medicines. We have some herbal knowledge, and would obviously learn more. As I said they just happen to be in that profession and would be extremely useful for their other skills and general ability. What would you do - tell them they are not wanted?

If you are growing veg in pots you cannot grow that many. You metnioned no dig beds in an earlier post. You are bound to have weeds blowing in on them.

Apart from that, thank you for an intersting response.

 

[renewablejohn]

A lot of work of both vets and doctors does not need medicines. We have some herbal knowledge, and would obviously learn more. As I said they just happen to be in that profession and would be extremely useful for their other skills and general ability. What would you do - tell them they are not wanted?

If you are growing veg in pots you cannot grow that many. You metnioned no dig beds in an earlier post. You are bound to have weeds blowing in on them.

Apart from that, thank you for an intersting response.

I think you misunderstand when I say pots. These are the trays the pots go into hence no weeding between plants.

https://www.lbsbuyersguide.co.uk/super-trays

Standard pots are 3 ltr deeps which contain for example 2 broad bean, or 3 runner bean, or 4 french bean, or 5 peas, or 3 lettuce. or 3 onion. etc etc.

Standard bay of polytunnel contains 10 trays so 180 pots per bay. Each polytunnel is 15 bays long and on average each tray grows 3 crops per year.

 

[Old McDonald]

I think you misunderstand when I say pots. These are the trays the pots go into hence no weeding between plants.

https://www.lbsbuyersguide.co.uk/super-trays

Standard pots are 3 ltr deeps which contain for example 2 broad bean, or 3 runner bean, or 4 french bean, or 5 peas, or 3 lettuce. or 3 onion. etc etc.

Standard bay of polytunnel contains 10 trays so 180 pots per bay. Each polytunnel is 15 bays long and on average each tray grows 3 crops per year.

That does not explain your earlier post about using no dig beds.

You are buying these plastic trays to stand pots in? Why? You are spending a lot of money to claim to be self-sufficient. Where do you obtain the income for such frivolous expenditure?

I am trying very hard to be "on side" with you and accept that you are single handedly doing all these things and providing virtually all of your own food and doing all that is necessary to operate a farm without the need for any assistance in providing power, light, heat, water and mechanics, but your posts do not quite ring true. In a way you remind me of John Seymour. That is not particularly a compliment.

I am sure you feel I am doing you an injustice, but your opening posts on this thread suggested you were so far in advance of the rest of us in providing for yourself, but on closer examination you are not. You have outlayed a great deal of money to reach your present situation.

You did not respond to some of the questions I asked in my previous post such as how many hours a week you work.. Are you actually running a commercial farm (single handedly) in addition to an AD plant etc, and growing all your own food? Your idea of half a day in busy times and 2 hours a week for the rest of the year to provide your own food simply does not comply wiht my own experience of several decades. I accept I may be extremely wasteful of my time, and would appreciate anyone telling me how to correct that, but 5 or 6 hours a week to produce all your own food seems an impossibility to me.

I am often accused of not being quite nice to people, but it is my natural instinct to question claims by people that they can do so much more than I ever could. I need to know how, why and how much money it cost to do so.

Most open vegetable ground in the UK is capable of producing 2 crops a year, and I do not see the virtue in your polytunnel and related expenditure to produce a third - particularly 90 to 95% water salad crops - which I never eat anyway.

 

[New Puritan]

Yes commercial approval.

Sorry to labour this point, but it is due to genuine interest. Who needs to approve a new fuel type? As far as I understand it, if someone wants to make their own fuel they can. HMRC even charge zero duty on the first 2500 litres if it's for personal use. Obviously if you are using chemicals then you need to comply with EA and HSE rules etc., but it doesn't need their approval per se, does it?

 

[phillipe]

Try using Erin multi purpose compost with deep pots and see how much easier growing veg is without weeds. Once you realise this then the next step is to make your own weed free compost. Its what commercial growers do but thanks to cheap electric from solar it makes sense on a smaller scale.

erin comes from the composted green recycle skips ,its full of weeds

 

[phillipe]

i have a poly tunnel and in summer you cannot grow anything because its too hot

 

[Old Boar]

I have a polytunnel with a lot of flowers growing for the house, tomatoes, strawberries and a blackcurrent bush that sprouted from a stick I used to prop something or other up. I also have a good crop of slugs, snails and bees..
A hammock in a polytunnel is lovely....

 

[renewablejohn]

The trays where FOC from a farm sale on the disposal of a garden centre at the same sale I obtained 12 flood tables at £10 each so really a bit of up cycling. The no dig beds are mainly for root crops, spuds, brassica and onions/leeks.
My main business is producing logs and drying in solar kilns. Normally do 5m3 per day at 1m3 per hour direct into IBC containers which get delivered to customers Nov to Jan. Normally do a years production in 3 months. Try and make Hay 6 days end of July beginning of August depending on weather. Veg production probably 2hrs per week Sept to Jan 6hrs per week Feb to May 4hrs per week Jun to Aug. Harvest and storage. Nov to Mar 2 hrs per week Apr to Jun 4hrs per week. Jul to Oct 12 hours per week.
Whats with the water salad crops. As we are very exposed on a hilltop a polytunnel is essential for such boring crops as runner beans, french beans and squashes. Anything we direct sow out in the garden in April we also do an over winter crop in the polytunnel in October.
I have said nothing about an AD plant it is biomass CHP.
I do like John Seymour but have moved on from his deep beds using my commercial horticulture experience.

 

[renewablejohn]

i have a poly tunnel and in summer you cannot grow anything because its too hot

If you have a fall on the ridge line from one end of the tunnel to the other it will auto-ventilate with the doors open at each end. Ours normally run with a 10C temperature differential from one end to the other so keep your cool crops at the cool end and high temperature crops at the hot end
Most people make the mistake of having the ridge line horizontal even commercial installers.