Set the navigation point to the implement on an X30/C3000

Location
North
I'm trying to learn how to use the AGCO C3000 (mostly the same as Topcon X30) auto-steer screen. I did not find instructions from the manual on setting the navigation point to the implement instead of being set to the tractor.

Currently the C3000 steers the tractor to follow the stored (curve) wayline. I'm used to Fendt VarioGuide and it allows me to define the navigation point at the implement to make the implement follow the curved wayline. How do I do it with the C3000/X30?

If there is no setting, is there any other way to reuse a set of curved waylines for different implements. An example is a trailed drill and a mounted sprayer. The trailed drill should follow exactly the wayline because the tramlines should appear where the mounted sprayer would be driving when using the same waylines (every n:th for the sprayer).

Here an example of my quite narrow test field. At the curve my drill is not following the wayline as you can see from the coverage map. Instead it is the tractor that follows the wayline.


I must have missed a setting or have I defined the implement incorrectly?

Another issue feature that I can handle with the VarioGuide but could not figure out for the C3000: the X30 manual explains that recording a curve guidance line can be interrupted. How should this be done? I figured it out for the field border but not for the curve wayline. An example application is a wayline that consists of straight sections and curves. If I stop recording at the start of the straight section and restart recording after the straight section, I get a "clean" combination of AB-line sections within a curve wayline.

I could record the wayline with VarioGuide but unfortunately there is no way to transfer the recorded curve line from VarioGuide to C3000/X30.

How do C3000/X30 experts handle curve lines? A tutorial would be welcome.

Curved wayline.JPG
 
Last edited:

Robt

Member
Location
Suffolk
You have got it set as mounted. It it's about 5m behind? Why?
Topcon will steer tractor to keep implement online rather than tractor....
didn't you get some advice when you bought it? Remember our emails and think you didn't
Re interrupting curve recording, if you hand bought an x30 rather than a c3000 it gives you the chance to pause the recording.... c3000 is cheaper for a reasons, #itaintnox30
Ask away.
 
Last edited:
Location
North
You have got it set as mounted. It it's about 5m behind? Why?
Topcon will steer tractor to keep implement online rather than tractor....
didn't you get some advice when you bought it? Remember our emails and think you didn't
Re interrupting curve recording, if you hand bought an x30 rather than a c3000 it gives you the chance to pause the recording.... c3000 is cheaper for a reasons, #itaintnox30
Ask away.

A good device comes with a good manual. The X30 manual just mentions it can interrupt recording lines but does not mention how (could be obvious though when seen at the screen). I can get good support for AGCO gear from AGCO when I care to ask them but I doubt I would from Topcon (local). It isn't only about the brand but individual people etc. etc. If I were offered a Topcon option, I would probably have stayed away. With the price difference I could hire a man for ten years to be helping at the cabin every hour we are drilling :)

No, my test implement is not mounted. For some reason when I stop the tractor, the position of the implement moves from where it was previously. You can see the mapped coverage in my figure.

If Topcon X30 would make the tractor drive off the wayline to keep the implement on the wayline (just like Fendt), then it seems I have to contact the local AGCO support to figure out if they did it differently with the C3000 or more likely, what did I configure wrong.
 

Robt

Member
Location
Suffolk
You have some geometry wrong , does your implent geometry pic show wheels?
Can you post a pic of your implent geometry page and I can help.
Do you have an agco manual? You are not in Uk, so I cannot comment on your local Topcon support, bear in mind it's 10pm Uk time on a sat and I'm trying to help you so don't knock all Topcon dealers
 
Location
North
The implement type options on the C3000 screen:
C3000 implement categories.JPG

My test implement geometry:
test implement geometry.JPG
Supposed to be 3 m wide trailed implement, 10 metres to the wheels.

Another example behaviour on a curved wayline:
Curved wayline2.JPG

Sorry about very poor photos. I should have used the screen capture feature but had no USB memory with me.

I realised the trailed implement does not turn straight when I stop the tractor but it does if I move a bit backwards. This must have happened with the previous photo (making it look confusing).

PS. I actually should not have complained even the local Topcon support since I have not used their support. I just made conclusions from their sales experience. Had no intention to criticize Topcon globally, definitely not Topcon UK. I did emphasise that this is more of a personal matter rather than a brand issue, at least the persons come first in good and bad in my opinion.
 
Location
North
Coming shortly back to this topic, perhaps clarifying some confusion.

Here a quick example from Fendt VarioGuide on a curve wayline and a trailed implement.

VarioGuide on a curve wayline.JPG


Not a perfect screen capture but one can see that the tractor is driving off the wayline to force the trailed implement follow the wayline. This is all done with a single receiver, VarioGuide calculates the tractor path, taking into account implement settings.

I thought this would be the same for other brands too but I've learned it is not. Seems the majority (if not all others) do like X30/Auto-Guide 3000. Correct me if I'm wrong but my implement geometry was fine, it is just that both X30 and Auto-Guide (as well as many other autosteer systems) steer the tractor along the curved wayline unlike VarioGuide (on the VarioGuide it depends how the navigation point is configured).

Not a big deal though, for many reasons it is better to avoid curved waylines where possible, specifically curved lines with tight turns.

Of course there are dual receiver implementations with passive or active implement steering but I was considering the "basic" single receiver case only (the scenario I'm familiar with).
 

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Location
North
Just shows how inportant measuring implement geometry is

Indeed, but this is not what the thread was about (at least what I was after).

The implement follows identical curves equally if the tractor wheels follow the wayline or if the implement followed the wayline. Perhaps nobody pays attention to this as it only matters in special scenarios and A-B lines are favoured over identical curves where possible. Also it seems all other screens do it like Topcon except the Fendt VarioGuide (based on the manuals I've found, not real life experience with all of them).
 
Indeed, but this is not what the thread was about (at least what I was after).

The implement follows identical curves equally if the tractor wheels follow the wayline or if the implement followed the wayline. Perhaps nobody pays attention to this as it only matters in special scenarios and A-B lines are favoured over identical curves where possible. Also it seems all other screens do it like Topcon except the Fendt VarioGuide (based on the manuals I've found, not real life experience with all of them).

I think in general its not noticed because, firstly the lines laid down by one receiver are generally followed by the same (brand) receiver even if it's in a different machines, so they'll all follow the same "convention". Secondly as long as the implement matches up correctly with previous pass then to the driver that is all that matters, whether the tractor or the implement is technically on or off the guidance line wont matter (in the same crop operation)? :scratchhead:

The difference I'd have thought only become obvious on especially long implements, running to very tight curves. How do the pivot guys do it in the states? Do they run two receivers or just carefully tweak the settings on single basic receiver setup, and work to that setup

Alternatively the "error" would be really obvious if you had two machines in the same field pulling identical implements (all geometry correctly measured entered), following the exact same (very tightly curved) lines BUT with different brands of receivers fitted. However that's not a very likely scenario I don't think.
 
Location
North
Note that I'm not after settings that give perfect coverage. Roughly speaking the implement parameters make no difference as long as you have the same tractor/screen and the same implement (no difference for the real coverage, coverage mapping on the screen could well be affected but even there not between two passes).

Unfortunately I do not seem to be able to explain the scenario clearly, my fault certainly (not only because of a language barrier).

The essential part of my scenario is that the field is first drilled with a trailed drill and later sprayed with a mounted sprayer. One ought to use the same waylines that the drilling tractor does. Here comes the big difference between the two steering algorithms.

If the field is drilled with a Fendt/VarioGuide, the sprayer tractor (independently of the screen brand) would follow the tramlines that the drill created. The point being that the drill creates tramlines to the exact same position where the waylines on the screen appear. The mounted sprayer then can basically drive along the actual waylines

If the field was drilled with a Topcon screen (or almost any of the other brands), the field would get properly covered, no problem there. However the drill would create tramlines that do not follow the waylines on the screen. Now if the field is sprayed with a mounted sprayer, the sprayer tractor would drive off waylines (only in curved areas though). The tractor would unnecessarily destroy plants off the waylines.

Everything above concerns curved lines only and even there, only significant curves.

So how do you make the mounted sprayer follow real tramlines on the field, using the curved waylines created during drilling (wayline distance obviously modified to match the difference of the width of each implement)?
 

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Man fined £300 for bonfire-related waste offences

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Written by William Kellett from Agriland

court-640x360.jpg
A man has pleaded guilty at Newtownards Magistrates’ Court to waste offences relating to a bonfire next to the electrical sub-station on the Circular Road in Newtownards, Co. Down.

Gareth Gill (51) of Abbot’s Walk, Newtownards pleaded guilty to two charges under the Waste and Contaminated Land (Northern Ireland) Order 1997, for which he was fined £150 each and ordered to pay a £15 offender’s levy

On June 25, 2018, PSNI officers went to Gill’s yard, where they found a large amount of waste consisting of scrap wood, pallets, carpet and underlay.

Discussion with Northern Ireland Environment Agency (NIEA) officers confirmed the site...
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