Setting a shocking example...

[Guy Smith]

For the record,

I am one of six directors of a company that by legal and binding agreement is split into four separate, independently run divisions including an arable and dairy unit. I run the arable division that also has extensive conservation areas. There are no cattle on any of the area under my control. I have no management input or any day to day involvement in the dairy unit. I take no financial benefit from the operation of the dairy unit. Apart from one occasion when I had to deliver an urgent message, which took about thirty seconds, I have never set foot in the dairy buildings and have no knowledge of how stock is handled in the unit. I have absolutely no involvement in the recruitment, training or discipline of staff in the dairy unit.

This was explained to the Independent newspaper before the story was published.

For legal reasons, I cannot comment in too much detail on the content of the video footage published other than to say it showed failings which needed urgent redress. As I understand it, this has been now actioned.

As you can imagine, the family involved in this affair is now suffering a good deal of upset and distress.

 

[Scholsey]

For the record,

I am one of six directors of a company that by legal and binding agreement is split into four separate, independently run divisions including an arable and dairy unit. I run the arable division that also has extensive conservation areas. There are no cattle on any of the area under my control. I have no management input or any day to day involvement in the dairy unit. I take no financial benefit from the operation of the dairy unit. Apart from one occasion when I had to deliver an urgent message, which took about thirty seconds, I have never set foot in the dairy buildings and have no knowledge of how stock is handled in the unit. I have absolutely no involvement in the recruitment, training or discipline of staff in the dairy unit.

This was explained to the Independent newspaper before the story was published.

For legal reasons, I cannot comment in too much detail on the content of the video footage published other than to say it showed failings which needed urgent redress. As I understand it, this has been now actioned.

As you can imagine, the family involved in this affair is now suffering a good deal of upset and distress.

By trying to completely distance yourself your making them seem even more guilty, don’t throw them under a bus!

The positives of clean, fit, quiet stock well outweigh the negatives in this video.

Your in a position to help stop attack’s on livestock farmers like this from happening.

 

[Headless chicken]

edit :

full video can be found on YouTube. I have removed the link as I don’t feel it’s appropriate to share pictures or videos of young children without the knowledge or consent of their gaurdians.

The more you look the more you see how it’s been sensationalised. Also there has been a young child been filmed and published. That is a disgrace. The fact that they block the face is irrelevant.
How many of us here would be happy if they found out someone had installed cameras in a park to watch out children play without our knowledge?

@Guy Smith i feel for you but I seriously hope that the NFU’s position on this is that this is unacceptable on every level and Will Be perusing a conviction against the parties installing cameras.

 

[Tim G]

I hope the NFU throw their weight behind a prosecution of those who illegally break into farms and place hidden cameras.
I know the dairy farming side of this family well enough, but have never met Guy (other than having seen him at an NFU meeting a couple of times some years back) so I'm aware he has very little to do with it. What I would say is that you couldn't hope find a more genuine or kind family. Everyone there is passionate about their cows and I'm sure this will be tearing them apart. They've invested a lot in a very modern unit and judging by the success they have at shows, very good genetics. They have getting on for 300 milkers so are a fair sized unit. Whilst many would've laughed at us when we decided to start milking with a couple of cows, the Smiths were very encouraging and supportive, and I won't forget that.
I have visited their farm several times over the last few months but never saw a dead calf and knowing the layout, would question how a member of the public would have seen one if there was one. I also wonder why that person wouldn't have raised their concerns at seeing it with someone on the farm, or perhaps the rspca, but instead chose to contact an anti dairy campaign group. I'd also note that the farm comment in the article that the footage was taken over 18 months, not two.

 

[Smith31]

So as a haulier you were prosecuted for picking up a farmers lame cow and taking it to a abattoir?

We were prosecuted for causing unnecessary pain and suffering to an animal, according to our driver the animal had no signs of discomfort whilst being loaded, nor were there any signs of muscle damage evident after slaughter. It was our word against a
qualified abattoir vet in court.

Upon the instructions of our solicitor we pleaded guilty, as it was a case relating to animal cruelty and the magistrates would most likely support a qualified vets point of view. Many farmers have been in similiar predicaments. The NFU have done nothing to prevent such cases, what is happening here is nothing new.

 

[ridger]

Watched the video. Cows are in great order and calves looking well.

 

[Canada Farmer]

We were prosecuted for causing unnecessary pain and suffering to an animal, according to our driver the animal had no signs of discomfort whilst being loaded, nor were there any signs of muscle damage evident after slaughter. It was our word against a
qualified abattoir vet in court.

Upon the instructions of our solicitor we pleaded guilty, as it was a case relating to animal cruelty and the magistrates would most likely support a qualified vets point of view. Many farmers have been in similiar predicaments. The NFU have done nothing to prevent such cases, what is happening here is nothing new.

Eh, so you pleaded guilty for something you didn't do????

 

[Canada Farmer]

Watched the video. Cows are in great order and calves looking well.

And just how independent is the Independent? Or is it just me that they look a wee bit simplistic?

 

[Smith31]

So you say Guy should resign?

Well then by your on logic after you were convicted you should have sold your own business!..............................

Guy hasn't been found guilty of anything! all there is is a very edited video by animal right nutters that want to stop ANY form of livestock farming!

The Smiths run a massive farming and diversified business with several directors that all manage different parts of the business on a day to day basis, Guy runs the arable enterprise and not only that he is away most of the week on NFU business so if there is any blame to be had then it is with the director who runs the dairy unit on a day to day basis!

Very clear Smith31 that you despise the NFU/AHDB etc which is your right, however you should not let your personal feelings cloud your judgement on issues like this!

Perhaps before you condemn Guy and demand he resigns you get in touch with the animal right nutters who took this footage illegally and ask them if you can view the entire 2 months video to get the real picture of what is going on at this farm ( good or bad as the case may be! )

The NFU/AHDB promote good animal welfare practices.

If the general public saw someone swearing and tugging at their dog, they would be appalled phone footage would be streamed live on Facebook by passers by. Followed by thousands of comments of disgust from Joe Public.

I fully agree with you, the video on Guys farm was illegal and wrong.

However, the video is giving ammunition to the vegan brigade. Farmers especially dairy farmers are facing a very serious risk of having daily, compulsory veterinary inspections like we have in abattoirs.

Believe me when Mr Hernadez turns up at your farm with a body camera and watches your every move whilst charging you £60 an hour for the pleasure, you'll change your tune. The mechanisms are in place as the agencies who provide abattoir vets can soon add a few more vets to their payroll and send them to dairy farms.

If a small abattoir slaughtering 5 cows a day has to have veterinary presence to ensure that animal welfare standards are complied with, what argument can a 300 head dairy farmer put forward? They are both commercial enterprises.

I do feel incredibly sorry for Guy and his family.

Now instead of having a go at me and acussing me of being anti farming, what I am simply trying to put across to dairy farmers is take these matters seriously and be seen to do so, or you will end up like abattoirs where you will be paying thousands each month for vets to turn up and try and close you down, just like they have done in the abattoir sector.

I wish Guy all the best and hope it does not impact upon him.

 

[Smith31]

Eh, so you pleaded guilty for something you didn't do????

Our solicitors charge was £200+ an hour if it went to trial, the specialst vetinary presence would have cost £1000 a day. We would have had to pay our driver full daily wages to attend court. And if found guilty after trial the fines would have been much higher. Additionally we would have been responsible for the prosecutions costs which could have amounted to £20,000+.

So we pleaded guilty from a financial viewpoint, many farmers have done exactly the same and will do so in the future. Life is not fair as our solicitor put it.

 

[Scholsey]

The NFU/AHDB promote good animal welfare practices. So they are against Guy on this one, not me.

If the general public saw someone swearing and tugging at their dog, they would be appalled phone footage would be streamed live on Facebook by passers by. Followed by thousands of comments of disgust from Joe Public.

I fully agree with you, the video on Guys farm was illegal and wrong.

However, the video is giving ammunition to the vegan brigade. Farmers especially dairy farmers are facing a very serious risk of having daily, compulsory veterinary inspections like we have in abattoirs.

Believe me when Mr Hernadez turns up at your farm with a body camera and watches your every move whilst charging you £60 an hour for the pleasure, you'll change your tune. The mechanisms are in place as the agencies who provide abattoir vets can soon add a few more vets to their payroll and send them to dairy farms.

If a small abattoir slaughtering 5 cows a day has to have veterinary presence to ensure that animal welfare standards are complied with, what argument can a 300 head dairy farmer put forward? They are both commercial enterprises.

I do feel incredibly sorry for Guy, but the law is the law like the magistrates told us.

Now instead of having a go at me and acussing me of being anti farming, what I am simply trying to put across to dairy farmers is take these matters seriously and be seen to do so, or you will end up like abattoirs where you will be paying thousands each month for vets to turn up and try and close you down, just like they have done in the abattoir sector.

I wish Guy all the best and hope it does not impact upon him.

What evidence that law has been broken on guys farm?

Your never convince a vegan that dairy farming is right nor perfectly performed slaughter in a abattoir so they is little point trying.

The independent was wrong posting about ‘sexual abuse’ without asking the opinion of a practicing large animal vet without the sexual abuse headline this wouldn’t have got any attention what so ever.

 

[Smith31]

What evidence that law has been broken on guys farm?

Your never convince a vegan that dairy farming is right not perfectly performed slaughter in a abattoir so they is little point trying.

The independent was wrong posting about ‘sexual abuse’ without asking the opinion of a practicing large animal vet without the sexual abuse headline this wouldn’t have got any attention what so ever.

Guy will have an excellent case for compensation if he has broken no laws.

Will be interesting to see how the NFU acts on this case went it involves one of their own, as they have ignored many farmers who have been in a similiar position in the past.

The vetinary evidence will make interesting reading.

 

[Canada Farmer]

Our solicitors charge was £200+ an hour if it went to trial, the specialst vetinary presence would have cost £1000 a day. We would have had to pay our driver full daily wages to attend court. And if found guilty after trial the fines would have been much higher. Additionally we would have been responsible for the prosecutions costs which could have amounted to £20,000+.

So we pleaded guilty from a financial viewpoint, many farmers have done exactly the same and will do so in the future. Life is not fair as our solicitor put it.

I did expect that you were being financially expedient along those lines, but at what point does one conclude that the judicial system has failed when innocent people plead guilty?

 

[Derrick Hughes]

How would you compare a few slaps on the video to whipping in horse racing . Not that i have an opion on that either

This is a vidio i chose at random .
I am not saying thats wrong but it looks a lot worse that the cow vidio and is screened on tv

 

[milkloss]

Beef cow? How aboot Simmental bull thats as crazy as a bag of cats??
No, not my bull either!!!?

You only have a small window as they grow to get that dominance over them. Dominance is the wrong word really because that infers there’s going to be a permanent risk of a scrap over who’s top dog which obviously isn’t good! Let’s say respect.

Not your bull, but if he’s of any age and started to be a twit it’s time to make burgers! Too risky imo.

A bit controversial but I have a saying “A little bit of fear can be a good thing”. On the animals part that is. When I say fear I mean the animal is thinking ‘I’d rather WALK (not run in fear or fright in a negative manner) away from you than come for a head scratch/nose yours pockets for some grub and mash you against that gate’. It doesn’t have to be instilled with physical harm and doesn’t need to be causing damage to the animals pysche but that flight zone has to be established carefully so that man and beast can work together. A piece of poly pipe can be used as a signal that you are in charge for the duration you are holding it simply because the animal thinks you can reach further and hence thier flight zone increases accordingly. No pipe, smaller flight zone, steadier animal.

So the poly pipe can actually be used as a non threatening communication method rather than a way to beat them into submission.

 

[essexpete]

For the record,

I am one of six directors of a company that by legal and binding agreement is split into four separate, independently run divisions including an arable and dairy unit. I run the arable division that also has extensive conservation areas. There are no cattle on any of the area under my control. I have no management input or any day to day involvement in the dairy unit. I take no financial benefit from the operation of the dairy unit. Apart from one occasion when I had to deliver an urgent message, which took about thirty seconds, I have never set foot in the dairy buildings and have no knowledge of how stock is handled in the unit. I have absolutely no involvement in the recruitment, training or discipline of staff in the dairy unit.

This was explained to the Independent newspaper before the story was published.

For legal reasons, I cannot comment in too much detail on the content of the video footage published other than to say it showed failings which needed urgent redress. As I understand it, this has been now actioned.

As you can imagine, the family involved in this affair is now suffering a good deal of upset and distress.

Well that does not read well sir. Heading up the NFU I think it quite poor that you have not taken the trouble to see how a local dairy farm runs irrespective of the fact that you technically have a business interest in the farm in question. There are but a few dairy farms in Essex and I guess your comments really highlight how they stand currently with the NFU.

 

[neilo]

You only have a small window as they grow to get that dominance over them. Dominance is the wrong word really because that infers there’s going to be a permanent risk of a scrap over who’s top dog which obviously isn’t good! Let’s say respect.

Not your bull, but if he’s of any age and started to be a twit it’s time to make burgers! Too risky imo.

A bit controversial but I have a saying “A little bit of fear can be a good thing”. On the animals part that is. When I say fear I mean the animal is thinking ‘I’d rather WALK (not run in fear or fright in a negative manner) away from you than come for a head scratch/nose yours pockets for some grub and mash you against that gate’. It doesn’t have to be instilled with physical harm and doesn’t need to be causing damage to the animals pysche but that flight zone has to be established carefully so that man and beast can work together. A piece of poly pipe can be used as a signal that you are in charge for the duration you are holding it simply because the animal thinks you can reach further and hence thier flight zone increases accordingly. No pipe, smaller flight zone, steadier animal.

So the poly pipe can actually be used as a non threading communication method rather than a way to beat them into submission.

I would suggest ‘dominance’ is indeed the right word, as it’s all about being top of the pecking order, much like a group of bulls/rams establishing a natural order.

A length of poly pipe is indeed a ‘method of communication’ and, as anyone who’s been on the receiving end of a bull that thinks HE is dominant will tell you, is little more than a tickler in that instance.

 

[Smith31]

I did expect that you were being financially expedient along those lines, but at what point does one conclude that the judicial system has failed when innocent people plead guilty?

As stated previously our solicitor concluded life is not fair.

 

[Lowland1]

if you have ever had livestock on your farm you will know it doesn't always do what you want it to do and as such we will all have some different ways of getting them to move. The problem in all of this is that your customers are watching and whether this is done by one bad apple or taken out of context it's something you do not want your customers to see.

 

[Bill the Bass]

How would you compare a few slaps on the video to whipping in horse racing . Not that i have an opion on that either

This is a vidio i chose at random .
I am not saying thats wrong but it looks a lot worse that the cow vidio and is screened on tv

I don’t think these militant Vegan fruit cakes are too keen about horse racing either. In fact I don’t think they are keen on anything this life has to offer other being a sack full of miserable sh!t and bawling about everyone else.