Setup plough legs

[Henk]

Recently someone gave me a copy of the owner's manual for my Ford-Ransomes EP-J plough. The layout is actually the same as the Ransomes TS59.

I have been ploughing with it for several years ina 12"setup and have the front plough leg on the inside of the frame and the rear one on the outside. So I have a difference of 12 ”. After all, the frame is 12 ”. With normal plowing at depth with this setup, the top link is straight behind the tractor to the plow. The track width is 56 ”.

The manual states that for 12 ”, the front plough leg should be on the outside of the frame and the rear one on the inside. (as in the picture) Then there is again 12 ”in between.

Still, I have the feeling that something is not quite right in this setup.

The size between the center of the top link attachment and the frame is fixed. The track width does not change either.

I think the top link will no longer be straight behind the tractor with the front leg outside, despite the fact that I can shift the plow across the crankshaft.
Am I correct or am I thinking wrong?

 

[Howard150]

Recently someone gave me a copy of the owner's manual for my Ford-Ransomes EP-J plough. The layout is actually the same as the Ransomes TS59.

I have been ploughing with it for several years ina 12"setup and have the front plough leg on the inside of the frame and the rear one on the outside. So I have a difference of 12 ”. After all, the frame is 12 ”. With normal plowing at depth with this setup, the top link is straight behind the tractor to the plow. The track width is 56 ”.

The manual states that for 12 ”, the front plough leg should be on the outside of the frame and the rear one on the inside. (as in the picture) Then there is again 12 ”in between.

Still, I have the feeling that something is not quite right in this setup.

The size between the center of the top link attachment and the frame is fixed. The track width does not change either.

I think the top link will no longer be straight behind the tractor with the front leg outside, despite the fact that I can shift the plow across the crankshaft.
Am I correct or am I thinking wrong?

same old same old Henk. If it’s not broken then don’t fix it. Most people match ploughing have the leg on the outside of the frame. TS86’s are set up that way as well. Most people match ploughing have also experimented with all the different permutations and use what works best for them.
Just in passing most of the vintage classes here plough at 10”, classic 10.5 to 11”

 

[Henk]

Thanks Howard,

Today I tested the setup with the front leg out side the frame.
Plough was working to small at the front. Shifting the crank shaft only repositions the lift arms in the wrong way. Top link and body's were fighting to get in line.
Going to put them back as they were.
Still can't figger out why the manual states it. It also claims that the cranck shaft can be moved 4 inches, while 2 inch is only possible. Maybe I have a different crack shaft. Who knowes.

 

[rick_vandal]

same old same old Henk. If it’s not broken then don’t fix it. Most people match ploughing have the leg on the outside of the frame. TS86’s are set up that way as well. Most people match ploughing have also experimented with all the different permutations and use what works best for them.
Just in passing most of the vintage classes here plough at 10”, classic 10.5 to 11”

Henk's fig 35 works for me! Moving the front leg outside the frame (to the right) widens the rear slice, QED. Also the Rules state 6" min depth, so a narrow plough gives less inversion viz for a 10" plough, arctan 6/10 = 31 degrees or 149 degrees of inversion (if the slice remains unbroken). Compared to a 12" set-up where 6/12=0.5 or 26.5 degrees or 154 degrees of inversion and it gets worse if you plough at 7" but you still have 40" inside the tyres with a penalty of showing 2 wheelmarks?

 

[Henk]

Rick,

Sorry this is a bit abracadabra for me. English is soso and knowledge of the plough theorie also.

 

[rick_vandal]

Rick,

Sorry this is a bit abracadabra for me. English is soso and knowledge of the plough theorie also.

My mistake to use Latin here! Sorry, aber die Leute hier kennen nur TS59, aber sie wollen einen TS86 und auch FR ist ein anderer Pflug. Wenn Sie das Vorderteil nach rechts bewegen, wird der Pflug größer, wenn 12 "perfekt für 6" sind.

 

[arcobob]

Henk's fig 35 works for me! Moving the front leg outside the frame (to the right) widens the rear slice, QED. Also the Rules state 6" min depth, so a narrow plough gives less inversion viz for a 10" plough, arctan 6/10 = 31 degrees or 149 degrees of inversion (if the slice remains unbroken). Compared to a 12" set-up where 6/12=0.5 or 26.5 degrees or 154 degrees of inversion and it gets worse if you plough at 7" but you still have 40" inside the tyres with a penalty of showing 2 wheelmarks?

You really don`t get it. You have not taken into account that the sweep of the mouldboard usually exceeds the width ploughed. Thus the slice is set up and compressed. If you watch many leading contenders they do not plough 6" but frequently less. In the words of Ken Chappell five inches is plenty and if the steward is approaching just wind in a bit and wait until he has gone. I don`t make the rules but I do try to follow them.
The degree of inversion is not that important as long as the furrows are distinct and uniform , all of the trash is buried and the ploughed land is reasonably firm to make a seedbed with a minimum of work..

 

[rick_vandal]

If the vintage classes 'here' plough at 10”, classic 10.5 to 11”, without cheating the Rules of 6" minimum depth, that 6x10 cross section of soil has to go somewhere before the next slice arrives irrespective of board type or push or pitch or level.

 

[arcobob]

If the vintage classes 'here' plough at 10”, classic 10.5 to 11”, without cheating the Rules of 6" minimum depth, that 6x10 cross section of soil has to go somewhere before the next slice arrives irrespective of board type or push or pitch or level.

Classic can plough 7" I believe. Which side of the frame the legs are mounted depends on the furrow width and the width of the frame. To run the front furrow outside the frame offers some advantages because it gives more latitude for movement but on a 12" frame this is not easily achievable. I have a plough with a 10" TS59 frame and both legs are to the right of the frame as viewed from behind. Work that one out if you think it is worthwhile.
Your theories are all very well but can you turn them into results?

 

[Henk]

My DMD boards works best at 7" depth. I know these are not appreciated by UK men, but the boards were ment for our soil. In Holland it's appreciated to plough that depth by jury’s, but most ploughmen prefer 6" or less.

Last weekend I've finely did get the plough strait in line with the tractor. Was a long searched because it had a hard collagen with a stone in the past and I think that the frame was bended than.
Have now the beams back at the front inside and back outside.

 

[arcobob]

My DMD boards works best at 7" depth. I know these are not appreciated by UK men, but the boards were ment for our soil. In Holland it's appreciated to plough that depth by jury’s, but most ploughmen prefer 6" or less.

Last weekend I've finely did get the plough strait in line with the tractor. Was a long searched because it had a hard collagen with a stone in the past and I think that the frame was bended than.
Have now the beams back at the front inside and back outside.

It is many years since I ploughed with DMD boards but as I remember they were designed to plough up to 300mm deep and 300mm wide. I don`t recall ploughing under 250mm deep with them in farm use. I am pleased to hear that you found the problem with the plough. If the frame is bent there is a very good chance that the leg is bent also.

 

[Henk]

I know that it's ment to plough deeper, but at matches the depth should be between 16 and 20 cm. I have the best result with 18 cm
The leg was indeed twisted. If have straiten it on a milling machine. I only needed to mill 0,3 mm of the get it in line. The frame however is more bended. The front leg needs 2,75 mm at the back at the bottom and 0 at the front at the top. And to compensate for other things it needs 1 mm on the rear of the plough.
It took me a long time to figure it all out.

 

[Howard150]

I machine lots of legs. I make new legs for TS86’s and take the bend out of 59 legs.

First of all you need to find the flat face of the leg. Clamp it down on that face and then machine the other face square and parallel to it. Machine the mating faces at the top of the leg as you go. Take off as little as possible.
next comes the fancy bit. You need to machine the frog mating face so that the point is tipped in towards work and the heel of the landside is tipped out to land. It needs to be done in such a way that the frog is vertical when bolted on. That’s what the horseshoe Mark is in the middle of the leg. At this point and on the leading edge of the leg it should be about 1.5mm deep. ideally the mark should have surfaced before it reaches the back of the leg. Done properly then about 6mm should have been taken off the face of the leg at the front leading edge.

 

[OGB]

I machine lots of legs. I make new legs for TS86’s and take the bend out of 59 legs.

First of all you need to find the flat face of the leg. Clamp it down on that face and then machine the other face square and parallel to it. Machine the mating faces at the top of the leg as you go. Take off as little as possible.
next comes the fancy bit. You need to machine the frog mating face so that the point is tipped in towards work and the heel of the landside is tipped out to land. It needs to be done in such a way that the frog is vertical when bolted on. That’s what the horseshoe Mark is in the middle of the leg. At this point and on the leading edge of the leg it should be about 1.5mm deep. ideally the mark should have surfaced before it reaches the back of the leg. Done properly then about 6mm should have been taken off the face of the leg at the front leading edge.

impressive stuff

 

[rick_vandal]

impressive stuff

Personally, not impressed by all that shiny stuff! Henk has just 0.3mm deviation on his leg but 10 times that amount on his frame. New shares suck!

 

[arcobob]

Personally, not impressed by all that shiny stuff! Henk has just 0.3mm deviation on his leg but 10 times that amount on his frame. New shares suck!

I am not impressed by your shiny stuff. Howard is a perfectionist and tries to make good commercial ploughs from the 50s and 60s into world beaters. You are a theorist, clearly short of practical knowledge and match experience and a head full of hornets. I challenge you to reveal your identity and match winning prowess that gives you the right to spout such garbage on here,

 

[Henk]

@Howard, Look great what you are making. I did just what you discribe. The 0,3 mm was the twist in the leg. Made a lot of difference when I used it on the plough. My tactic was eleminate every thing that was importend in my view and work my way up to get the plough strait.
Been a miller for 30 years and still use it in my work today and still enjoy it.

 

[rick_vandal]

Ga Henk. Ploegen buigen tijdens het werk maar kunnen worden gerepareerd. Morgen is beter.

 

[OGB]

Personally, not impressed by all that shiny stuff! Henk has just 0.3mm deviation on his leg but 10 times that amount on his frame. New shares suck!

It certainly is impressive! To go to that level of detail / machining, working to those tolerances on ploughs of that age... Which are out of true through use and in many cases manufactured with a lot less accuracy, and turn them into precision instruments...
...as arcobob says, show us your match winning prowess

 

[Howard150]

@Howard, Look great what you are making. I did just what you discribe. The 0,3 mm was the twist in the leg. Made a lot of difference when I used it on the plough. My tactic was eleminate every thing that was importend in my view and work my way up to get the plough strait.
Been a miller for 30 years and still use it in my work today and still enjoy it.

As for the frame, then I have my RSLD Number 12 frame packed with hacksaw blades to give me parallel landsides.
problem with mass produced Ransomes bits was that nothing was perfect when they were manufactured. I have had 6 or 7 legs stacked up together and none of the holes line up perfectly.
Well done Henk. As in all things it’s not just rectifying things, it’s finding out what’s actually wrong before rectifying things. Often see guys fixing things which are not actually broken.
it’s my experience that very few ploughmen are engineers and very few engineers are ploughmen. It’s fairly unique to be able to first isolate and then fix the problem