Sfi/elms

[Wombat]

The proposed grassland payments were particularly derisory iirc. To get a medium or higher amount of payment, I didn't think the payments compensated sufficiently for the reduced productivity.

Grassland SFI seemed even worse than the arable SFI (which isn't very good in the first place).

I'm currently undecided if I'll enter the introductory arable soils SFI. Can't decide if to go for it and get what we get, but of we get a payment reduction for not quite complying correctly - then hey ho. Or just don't bother, but concentrate my effort on something more worthy of my effort.

Sadly, I suspect some smaller farms will decide it isn't worth the bother/hassle, but larger farms will think it's worth the hassle because the payment rates can be multiplied by x,000 acres. Don't mean to take anything at all way from the successful hard work of someone who's grown to be a large farm, but the chap with 100 acres just might not bother with SFI payment rates x 100 acres.

Really, non of us should sign up. I'd say leave them with egg on their face. Let's face it, it's not going to coat us ALL THAT MUCH CASH to not send our forms in. Someone ought to really start a boycot SFI campaign.

I think HMG is going to use the SFI OM addition as part of its carbon sequestration and reduction commitments.

Edit. And the grassland payments really are pants.

100% our position, if all we can get to is £50 a hectare then it’s not worth the hassle when it’s just a £10 swing on all our cereals to make the same amount, Better off putting Sfi time into doing better marketing

 

[Vader]

Why should you be able to do that? My family aren't from farming stock and own a townhouse, they'll have to pay tax on it when it's passed to me. Why do you not get to do that? And on top of that you want an annual subsidy to prop up your lifestyle.

Because there would be no family farms left if not....
Most family farms are asset rich and cash poor. So would have to sell up or sell off to pay the tax.
Result, unviable farm, family business gone. Farms long-term project and investment. Can not be taxed to death each generation or none left apart from big corporation type ones.

 

[Grass And Grain]

Because there would be no family farms left if not....
Most family farms are asset rich and cash poor. So would have to sell up or sell off to pay the tax.
Result, unviable farm, family business gone. Farms long-term project and investment. Can not be taxed to death each generation or none left apart from big corporation type ones.

That's the reasoning I have in my head as to why farms will never get IHT levied at 40%. Folk would have to sell up, land price crashes, banks in the mire etc.

Slight concern is HMRC could put a blanket say 2% IHT on farms. Affordable to most, without bankrupting the business. Distinct concern.

Edit. More or less affordable, but could swallow up most of the cash someone has saved in their lifetime.

 

[ajd132]

100% our position, if all we can get to is £50 a hectare then it’s not worth the hassle when it’s just a £10 swing on all our cereals to make the same amount, Better off putting Sfi time into doing better marketing

What if your already doing it all? For me if it’s reasonable it could be worth £130/ha if the tiers are similar to what the originally suggested and I won’t have to change anything really. I guess the only thing is taking 10% out of production but I need to do some more detailed analysis on where loses money. Also trying to make it all fit on different size contract farms is another thing putting me off.

 

[Wombat]

What if your already doing it all? For me if it’s reasonable it could be worth £130/ha if the tiers are similar to what the originally suggested and I won’t have to change anything really. I guess the only thing is taking 10% out of production but I need to do some more detailed analysis on where loses money. Also trying to make it all fit on different size contract farms is another thing putting me off.

I am doing it already but when they come back at the end of year 3 after a mapping screw up or something and ask for a chunk of it back is it worth the hassle for £50 a hectare on a small hectareage. Maybe if we had a 1000ha the time makes sense but for 80ish hectares is it worth it?

if it gets to £150 to £180ha then I will seriously considering it assuming we don’t have to sacrifice too much.

 

[ajd132]

I am doing it already but when they come back at the end of year 3 after a mapping screw up or something and ask for a chunk of it back is it work the hassle for £50 a hectare on a small hectareage.

if it gets to £150 to £180ha then I will seriously considering it assuming we don’t have to sacrifice too much.

I believe it should be getting up to around £130-150

 

[Tucker86]

I believe it should be getting up to around £130-150

Can you not make more than £150 a hectare farming it though? This is the bit I’m struggling to understand ? Why take a lesser payment than you can make farming ?

 

[delilah]

Sit tight. It has changed massively from what it looked like a few months ago, and will change again beyond recognition before it substantively replaces the BPS.

 

[ajd132]

Can you not make more than £150 a hectare farming it though? This is the bit I’m struggling to understand ? Why take a lesser payment than you can make farming ?

What? You are farming it and getting the £150 or whatever it is at the same time.
Anything that will fully replace farming it will be a lot more than £150 as already seen in countryside stewardship etc.

 

[delilah]

Can you not make more than £150 a hectare farming it though? This is the bit I’m struggling to understand ? Why take a lesser payment than you can make farming ?

@ajd132 is still labouring under the illusion that there will be a sub for DD. There wont be.

 

[Vader]

That's the reasoning I have in my head as to why farms will never get IHT levied at 40%. Folk would have to sell up, land price crashes, banks in the mire etc.

Slight concern is HMRC could put a blanket say 2% IHT on farms. Affordable to most, without bankrupting the business. Distinct concern.

Edit. More or less affordable, but could swallow up most of the cash someone has saved in their lifetime.

100-150 acre farm with farmhouse can easily be valued at 2mil..
So 40k a year tax!

Business over...

 

[Grass And Grain]

What? You are farming it and getting the £150 or whatever it is at the same time.
Anything that will fully replace farming it will be a lot more than £150 as already seen in countryside stewardship etc.

As you say, if you're already doing the prescriptions, chopping straw, green covers over winter/cover crops, etc. Then it's cash for doing exactly what you've been doing.

 

[Grass And Grain]

100-150 acre farm with farmhouse can easily be valued at 2mil..
So 40k a year tax!

Business over...

Sorry, I was meaning one off IHT payment (not an annual tax). Someone muted an annual tax a couple of years back, small percentage of capital value, was it Labour? Would be a complete disaster, and who would pay on a tenanted farm? Hopefully it's a non-starter of an idea?

Think we better change the subject before we get depressed! The worry is HMRC need cash, and they can only get it from people who have it.

Each year we get tax advisors predicting changes to IHT rules etc. I think they're mainly just frightening folk into paying them fees (although succession planning is obviously important).

 

[ajd132]

@ajd132 is still labouring under the illusion that there will be a sub for DD. There wont be.

I’m really not. I was just saying SFI isn’t a replacement for farming it.

 

[ajd132]

As you say, if you're already doing the prescriptions, chopping straw, green covers over winter/cover crops, etc. Then it's cash for doing exactly what you've been doing.

Yes that what it looks like at the moment

 

[No wot]

Why should you be able to do that? My family aren't from farming stock and own a townhouse, they'll have to pay tax on it when it's passed to me. Why do you not get to do that? And on top of that you want an annual subsidy to prop up your lifestyle.

If your parents end up needing care in their old age , paying IHT won't be such a worry for you

 

[Tucker86]

What? You are farming it and getting the £150 or whatever it is at the same time.
Anything that will fully replace farming it will be a lot more than £150 as already seen in countryside stewardship etc.

You can get more than a £150 a hectare for a cereal crop so I don’t get why you would take less and farm a bird cover for 5 years ? Or am I missing something

 

[ajd132]

You can get more than a £150 a hectare for a cereal crop so I don’t get why you would take less and farm a bird cover for 5 years ? Or am I missing something

Are you not reading what I’m saying, it’s not a replacement for a crop. It’s for interventions within a cropping system, doing certain things whilst growing the crop gets you the money as it stands.

 

[Courier]

It seems that I am already creating the “public goods” required ( 2.35 tonnes annually per Ha of sequestered CO2) , but the crop I am growing doesn’t figure in the protocol so there is no point looking much further.

 

[Tucker86]

Are you not reading what I’m saying, it’s not a replacement for a crop. It’s for interventions within a cropping system, doing certain things whilst growing the crop gets you the money as it stands.

Yes I’ve read it properly now I was under the impression it was to take it out of production to make it environmentally friendly, I get it know