SFI Pilot payments

The usual excuse.. email trail to demo bumping on here
Hello Huno - I'm really not making an excuse, I'm apologising for having missed the message earlier and offering a conversation to follow it up - I do miss messages on here sometimes, just because there are a lot of threads and discussions and I'm not here all the time, but I do try and make sure I respond to everyone even if I'm a bit slow in doing so sometimes.
 

steveR

Member
Mixed Farmer
I and my team are always happy to respond to comments and feedback Steve, however critical - if you have any problems with that on the blog or anywhere else then please let me know and I'll be happy to help sort it out
Merci Bucks Janet.

I have to admit that the complete lack of ANY response from DEFRA to blog feedback et al, or indeed to any offer of involvement with the development of SFI/ELMS have essentially led me to leave it all alone now and see what transpires...

As Tiers 2 and 3 have essentially disappeared, I will be keen to see what now is on offer come 2023!
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
Sorry I missed this - I'd be really happy to set up a call with you and the team designing the SFI standards to talk about this, and keen to join the conversation to understand the issues and what we can do about it. Can we arrange a call? I'll DM....
While I am happy to have that conversation and have responded accordingly I am sure that others reading my post would like to hear what your ‘expert ‘ advisors have to say so can we expect a public response to the problems I have raised ? @Janet Hughes Defra

Contrary to the first paragraph the grassland standards as set out in the pilot would directly affect my profitability.
How? Because I would have to spend time and money on soil sampling which I only carry out when I consider the ground might need lime so limited to simple pH testing anything beyond is an additional cost.
The cattle are outwintered whenever possible so the muck and urine is applied where it falls.and I won’t be importing any organic material.
I don’t apply fertiliser.
I reseed where the cattle have been over winter and they do most of the work in turning over the ground. I rotate those areas but outwintering would appear to fall foul of the bare ground rules despite there being no runoff or soil erosion. To avoid bare ground I would need to house cattle with the additional costs of bedding and spreading manure and the cost of the buildings themselves.
I strip graze and back fence spring calving sucklers which provides maximum opportunities for grass production but I don’t see that fits in with minimum award heights nor can it when the purpose is to graze the grass off and move on daily. I conserve any surplus as it arises.
Waiting to cut for winter forage until a centrally determined date makes to sense in terms of grass quality, growth and the weather.
Delivering on the number of grass species per square metre is an interesting one to monitor and enforce when the grazing system means they don’t get time to go to seed and if the inspector turns up in January how will that part of the requirement be determined?
My system means I have minimal metal wear and I burn as little diesel as possible.
My profitability depends on selling maximum kilos of 12 month old suckled calves off the farm. To comply with the SFI rules as I read them would mean I would have to reduce the numbers cows on the farm and my output while my fixed costs remain the same and therefore my profitability fails significantly.
.
@Janet Hughes Defra I would be grateful if you would run the detail of my simple system past your ‘experts’ and ask them how I can possibly deliver the requirements of the SFI pilot and also the SFI scheme beyond the pilot since I may have missed something.
While I don’t expect an immediate response I would appreciate confirmation that you have asked the question and will provide the experts solutions in due course or perhaps an acknowledgement that SFI doesn’t work at the current levels of compensation for all grass farms.
 
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Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
Hello Huno - I'm really not making an excuse, I'm apologising for having missed the message earlier and offering a conversation to follow it up - I do miss messages on here sometimes, just because there are a lot of threads and discussions and I'm not here all the time, but I do try and make sure I respond to everyone even if I'm a bit slow in doing so sometimes.
Giles Hall and Mandy Roberts failed dismaly to organise your calendar to see what happens on the ground.. a personal invite without influence from lobbying morons... result.. nothing...
 

Huno

Member
Arable Farmer
Merci Bucks Janet.

I have to admit that the complete lack of ANY response from DEFRA to blog feedback et al, or indeed to any offer of involvement with the development of SFI/ELMS have essentially led me to leave it all alone now and see what transpires...

As Tiers 2 and 3 have essentially disappeared, I will be keen to see what now is on offer come 2023!
Dont hold your breath.. most of the money is beyond the reach of a mere farmer mortal
 
While I am happy to have that conversation and have responded accordingly I am sure that others reading my post would like to hear what your ‘expert ‘ advisors have to say so can we expect a public response to the problems I have raised ? @Janet Hughes Defra

Contrary to the first paragraph the grassland standards as set out in the pilot would directly affect my profitability.
Sure, how about we have a conversation and then share our write-up of it on here?
 
Giles Hall and Mandy Roberts failed dismaly to organise your calendar to see what happens on the ground.. a personal invite without influence from lobbying morons... result.. nothing...
I'm sorry we dropped the ball on that, that's absolutely 100% my responsibility and fault, not my team's. I'm keen to visit you and hopefully we can now pick it up and organise it.
 

Frank-the-Wool

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
East Sussex
I'm sorry we dropped the ball on that, that's absolutely 100% my responsibility and fault, not my team's. I'm keen to visit you and hopefully we can now pick it up and organise it.

Janet
I fear that the team behind you may not be keeping up with the present pace of change!
I received an email in the last couple of weeks asking if I would like to apply early for SFI in order to give feedback to your team on the application process.
I agreed to do so after asking a few questions and getting an email reply, I tried to log in to the SFI application, but I was rejected by the system.
I sent an email to the person who first emailed me and was told I will be getting another email to invite me to log in.

Not surprisingly I have heard nothing.

I never received a satisfactory reply over the freezing of the payments for "Species Rich Grassland" in CS a few weeks ago.

One of my questions to your team was if I could put all my SSSI land which is in CS into SFI.
The reply was that I could enter the first levels but would "possibly" need permission from Natural England. It would be a simple process to apply and so would be straightforward to get £16 a hectare or just over £6 an acre.

I am still interested but the process still needs more testing and for £6.00 an acre I am not sure I want the risks of falling foul of NE.
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
Sure, how about we have a conversation and then share our write-up of it on here?
@Janet Hughes Defra
My interpretation of the SFI grassland standards as I received them as a potential participant in the pilot has been set out in my post.
It is this interpretation that meant it is not economically viable for my farm to be entered into the any of the grassland standards contrary to your assertion in post #58
If I am wrong in my interpretation it should not be beyond your ‘experts’ to explain why in a post on this forum; however as yet there has been no rebuttal from DEFRA. Why is that? Could it be that I am right?
While I am happy to have a conversation whose version of the conversation and write up will be shared?
Far better to inform those who will be making decisions about SFI participation that if I am wrong I should be told publicly with an official explanation setting out how I have misunderstood the scheme.
In the absence of an explanation I would naturally be drawn to the conclusion that the grassland standards have not been subject to the “what if test” or run by farmers trying to earn a living.
Time for those who drew up the grassland standards to explain how they work in the real world where livestock need to graze to maximum effectiveness and forage conserved when it is at maximum feed value rather than at set dates.
I am waiting for your experts to convince me that while the grassland standards might suit the RSPB, Wildlife trusts and others to whom grass growth appears to be an inconvenience they can also work for those of us that produce food and have to make a profit to continue.
 

topground

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North Somerset.
@Janet Hughes Defra
My interpretation of the SFI grassland standards as I received them as a potential participant in the pilot has been set out in my post.
It is this interpretation that meant it is not economically viable for my farm to be entered into the any of the grassland standards contrary to your assertion in post #58
If I am wrong in my interpretation it should not be beyond your ‘experts’ to explain why in a post on this forum; however as yet there has been no rebuttal from DEFRA. Why is that? Could it be that I am right?
While I am happy to have a conversation whose version of the conversation and write up will be shared?
Far better to inform those who will be making decisions about SFI participation that if I am wrong I should be told publicly with an official explanation setting out how I have misunderstood the scheme.
In the absence of an explanation I would naturally be drawn to the conclusion that the grassland standards have not been subject to the “what if test” or run by farmers trying to earn a living.
Time for those who drew up the grassland standards to explain how they work in the real world where livestock need to graze to maximum effectiveness and forage conserved when it is at maximum feed value rather than at set dates.
I am waiting for your experts to convince me that while the grassland standards might suit the RSPB, Wildlife trusts and others to whom grass growth appears to be an inconvenience they can also work for those of us that produce food and have to make a profit to continue.
Bump
@Janet Hughes Defra
 

HallFarmBill

Member
Arable Farmer
Has anybody else in the pilot had a payment for the third year yet, and did it include the participation payment of £5k?

We've just had the first payment of the third year, and no participation payment. When I look at the agreement on the RPA portal, the 3rd year participation payment shows as zero.

I spoke to the RPA helpline, and the chap there could find nothing to say the participation payment had gone, & I'm waiting for a call back from the SFI pilot team.
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

  • 0 %

    Votes: 80 42.3%
  • Up to 25%

    Votes: 66 34.9%
  • 25-50%

    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

  • 1,292
  • 1
As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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