Share farming/ contract farming sheep

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
They claim the bps, pay for fencing/lime/drainage and you pay them £30/acre. Farm it well and you both have a decent draw. Farming sheep isn’t going too buy land at 10k/acre. But it maintains the land cheaply! In fact there isn’t much farming that will buy land at 10k, has too be roll over money or another business income usually!
 

Al R

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
West Wales
It works much better in my opinion if you let them “farm” the sheep for a couple of years, you just do the contract work and charge them proper rates. After a couple of years they soon think the £30 acre you offered them originally was a hell of a good deal for them.
Someone I rent off thought this so they had 5 bottle lambs. They refused to put fly treatment on when I offered it for free. They were looking after them themselves and planned on breeding this flock of 5 up to a flock of 100 ewes. I didn’t see them for a while but whenever I asked they said they were in the shade in the pallet shelters they’d made. 1 out of the 5 survived eventually. They asked me in to shear them after they’d already lost 2 to maggots. Felt seriously sorry for the sheep. They havnt had any since.
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
How many of you chap's who either begrudge a land owner a cut of the profits or think you have the right to rent it for circa £30 an acre, would go out and spend £10,000 on an acre of ground and then let it for £30 to some hero who'd just gone and spent £20 on a screw old hill ewe off the side of a mountain to keep on it, who then turns round and bad mouths you because you don't deserve a return on your investment.

I'd pay a rent of 3-5 times that for the right ground with security of tenure.

What I won't do is pay a 3 figure rent for HLS land on a grazing licence. Nor will I spent money improving land on a grazing licence, just so the landlord can bump the rent, or let it to someone else.
 
How many of you chap's who either begrudge a land owner a cut of the profits or think you have the right to rent it for circa £30 an acre, would go out and spend £10,000 on an acre of ground and then let it for £30 to some hero who'd just gone and spent £20 on a screw old hill ewe off the side of a mountain to keep on it, who then turns round and bad mouths you because you don't deserve a return on your investment.
Do they all keep crap old hill ewes ?

On a side note why does a man with 50k worth of tractor and kit go out to work for £35 an hour ?

Simple fact of the matter is that most landowners will massively benefit from having the ground farmed - ie tax breaks, no IHT, and various subs and payments.

Out of interest why does it really seem to bother you so much and make you angry ?

Also with regard to return on investment. If you buy 100 acres for 10k an acre ie £1 million. Whether you get £3000 a year rent or £10,000 a year rent, it’s hardly a return on your investment. I’m not sure people but farms as an investment in order to make money from renting them out.
 

Estate fencing.

Member
Livestock Farmer
Do they all keep crap old hill ewes ?

On a side note why does a man with 50k worth of tractor and kit go out to work for £35 an hour ?

Simple fact of the matter is that most landowners will massively benefit from having the ground farmed - ie tax breaks, no IHT, and various subs and payments.

Out of interest why does it really seem to bother you so much and make you angry ?

Also with regard to return on investment. If you buy 100 acres for 10k an acre ie £1 million. Whether you get £3000 a year rent or £10,000 a year rent, it’s hardly a return on your investment. I’m not sure people but farms as an investment in order to make money from renting them out.
A much better investment than there 2 acre garden that most of the new money land owners seem to have. One place i shepherd has a full time gardener, at least I’m keeping the place (relatively tidy) and I costs him nothing.
 

gwi1890

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
North wales
Do they all keep crap old hill ewes ?

On a side note why does a man with 50k worth of tractor and kit go out to work for £35 an hour ?

Simple fact of the matter is that most landowners will massively benefit from having the ground farmed - ie tax breaks, no IHT, and various subs and payments.

Out of interest why does it really seem to bother you so much and make you angry ?

Also with regard to return on investment. If you buy 100 acres for 10k an acre ie £1 million. Whether you get £3000 a year rent or £10,000 a year rent, it’s hardly a return on your investment. I’m not sure people but farms as an investment in order to make money from renting them out.

My landlord bought another farm 5 years ago 100 acres, converted 4 outbuildings into houses rented out at £750pcm, rents the farm out £200per acre and And keeps the BPS , I can’t say I agree with the rent but people are stupid or desperate enough to pay it, it’s unlikely that any form of livestock / share farming would equal what he’s earning from it.
 
Do they all keep crap old hill ewes ?

On a side note why does a man with 50k worth of tractor and kit go out to work for £35 an hour ?

Simple fact of the matter is that most landowners will massively benefit from having the ground farmed - ie tax breaks, no IHT, and various subs and payments.

Out of interest why does it really seem to bother you so much and make you angry ?

Also with regard to return on investment. If you buy 100 acres for 10k an acre ie £1 million. Whether you get £3000 a year rent or £10,000 a year rent, it’s hardly a return on your investment. I’m not sure people but farms as an investment in order to make money from renting them out.
Chap with the tractor working a ten hour day, five months he'll have his money back,minus costs obviously, but he'll have his initial investment back.
Land £10,000 acre, £150 rent per annum, close on 70 year's to get the investment back.
Employees very rarely seem to see things from an employer's perspective, and some of you appear to have that mindset, regards renting ground, the favourite generally being, they inherited it, they shouldn't be allowed sub's and should be made to rent it out for a pittance.
As regards bothering me/making me angry it doesn't, but as a mortgage paying owner occupier, with just a fair mortgage which is being paid by farming, there's no way on this earth I'd entertain renting it out for the figures normally quoted (we don't claim sub either)
I've probably worded that really badly, apologies if I have.
 

Tamar

Member
On a normal year, is there enough profit in the job to share farm just sheep ?

You really have to add the SFP in the scheme if the profits are going to be divided 50:50
 
Chap with the tractor working a ten hour day, five months he'll have his money back,minus costs obviously, but he'll have his initial investment back.
Land £10,000 acre, £150 rent per annum, close on 70 year's to get the investment back.
Employees very rarely seem to see things from an employer's perspective, and some of you appear to have that mindset, regards renting ground, the favourite generally being, they inherited it, they shouldn't be allowed sub's and should be made to rent it out for a pittance.
As regards bothering me/making me angry it doesn't, but as a mortgage paying owner occupier, with just a fair mortgage which is being paid by farming, there's no way on this earth I'd entertain renting it out for the figures normally quoted (we don't claim sub either)
I've probably worded that really badly, apologies if I have.
I think some of the issues we have when discussing this is that we are talking about apples and oranges. I think you’re talking about a smaller owner occupier who has bought a farm and has a mortgage to pay and sort of wants a return.

I’m talking about a different kind of person. For example one of my landlords is a 37 year old Asian model who lives in London. She bought the farm for 28 million with Chinese money (potential laundering) and has spent many millions on the house. She has sacked or booted out all of the staff. She still lives in London and very rarely visits. It’s 1000 acres and I currently tenant it on a grazing licence, no fences, no perm water. Lots of ‘complications’, and I’m often called to deal with other things which I am not paid for.

They need the estate farmed so they can claim subs, enviro payments etc, and so that it is kept tidy and they don’t need to spend lots of money topping grass etc. They don’t care about the money.

And I have no security, on a whim they are now rewilding the estate and I am going. They are ploughing up the 350 acres of herbal leys which we seeded last year and have come really well.

It is a totally different world.
 

Vader

Member
Mixed Farmer
Remember share farming is often just a way for a landowner to remain active farmer. Often the share farming is just you paying the rent in a convoluted way and farming the sheep as you normally could.

I have some share farming ideas I’d like to try with someone but would require the right person. I think it could work though! Just need to find someone with access to a decent block of ground, a good head and who can’t afford (but wants to farm) 500-2000 high genetic merit ewe lambs.
How much land needed for that?
 

Agrivator

Member
The shepherdlesser cult was originally named after the ones who spent 80% of the working day on Instagram and associated sites posting about their days wasn’t it? glorifying how beautiful it is to work outside with sheep and how everything is cute and cuddly 🤷🏻‍♂️
Oh.

I thought it was a @Agrivator slur applied to those who run shedding sheep/sheep with easier care characteristics.

Credit where credit's due. And it referred to anyone who thought there was merit in not looking after whatever sheep they were supposed to be looking after - shedding sheep or not.

The late Bob Brockie, a legendary farmer in Peeblesshire, sacked his shepherd.

He reckoned he could sit in the hoose, just as well as his shepherd did.
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
Chap with the tractor working a ten hour day, five months he'll have his money back,minus costs obviously, but he'll have his initial investment back.
Land £10,000 acre, £150 rent per annum, close on 70 year's to get the investment back.
Employees very rarely seem to see things from an employer's perspective, and some of you appear to have that mindset, regards renting ground, the favourite generally being, they inherited it, they shouldn't be allowed sub's and should be made to rent it out for a pittance.
As regards bothering me/making me angry it doesn't, but as a mortgage paying owner occupier, with just a fair mortgage which is being paid by farming, there's no way on this earth I'd entertain renting it out for the figures normally quoted (we don't claim sub either)
I've probably worded that really badly, apologies if I have.
You dont seem to get it
£30 is all the land is worth to rent and probably not even that.
Land rented out never pays as an investment , its the tax breaks and capital gain that makes ££££
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I think some of the issues we have when discussing this is that we are talking about apples and oranges. I think you’re talking about a smaller owner occupier who has bought a farm and has a mortgage to pay and sort of wants a return.

I’m talking about a different kind of person. For example one of my landlords is a 37 year old Asian model who lives in London. She bought the farm for 28 million with Chinese money (potential laundering) and has spent many millions on the house. She has sacked or booted out all of the staff. She still lives in London and very rarely visits. It’s 1000 acres and I currently tenant it on a grazing licence, no fences, no perm water. Lots of ‘complications’, and I’m often called to deal with other things which I am not paid for.

They need the estate farmed so they can claim subs, enviro payments etc, and so that it is kept tidy and they don’t need to spend lots of money topping grass etc. They don’t care about the money.

And I have no security, on a whim they are now rewilding the estate and I am going. They are ploughing up the 350 acres of herbal leys which we seeded last year and have come really well.

It is a totally different world.
Ffs
Why plough the leys?
Big farm sale locally today
1800 acres going to trees, tenant out
This is do fuxxed up its not funny
 

glasshouse

Member
Location
lothians
I think some of the issues we have when discussing this is that we are talking about apples and oranges. I think you’re talking about a smaller owner occupier who has bought a farm and has a mortgage to pay and sort of wants a return.

I’m talking about a different kind of person. For example one of my landlords is a 37 year old Asian model who lives in London. She bought the farm for 28 million with Chinese money (potential laundering) and has spent many millions on the house. She has sacked or booted out all of the staff. She still lives in London and very rarely visits. It’s 1000 acres and I currently tenant it on a grazing licence, no fences, no perm water. Lots of ‘complications’, and I’m often called to deal with other things which I am not paid for.

They need the estate farmed so they can claim subs, enviro payments etc, and so that it is kept tidy and they don’t need to spend lots of money topping grass etc. They don’t care about the money.

And I have no security, on a whim they are now rewilding the estate and I am going. They are ploughing up the 350 acres of herbal leys which we seeded last year and have come really well.

It is a totally different world.
What “extra duties” are u asked to provide?🤪
 

Mc115reed

Member
Livestock Farmer
Advisors 🤦🏻‍♂️ More often than not a little knowledge is a very dangerous thing! This is very much the case with what CB is talking about!!
Now I’ll not have you bad mouthing advisors! One of my landlords has been “advised” that he’d be better taking some of his ground out of arable contract farming and putting into GS4 and putting my sheep on it 😅😜
 

SFI - What % were you taking out of production?

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    Votes: 30 15.9%
  • 50-75%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 75-100%

    Votes: 3 1.6%
  • 100% I’ve had enough of farming!

    Votes: 7 3.7%

Red Tractor drops launch of green farming scheme amid anger from farmers

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As reported in Independent


quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

read the TFF thread here: https://thefarmingforum.co.uk/index.php?threads/gfc-was-to-go-ahead-now-not-going-ahead.405234/
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