shearing hand piece knowledge for dummies

[Nithsdale]

I think in that vid, it's a trick of the camera angles because he looks a lot higher on the disc than my set up here, too... and I'm on a Sunbeam grinder and Supershear pendulum so near as damn it what he is using there!

Being a perfectionist is a bad thing at this game - I can be one, too. You want to alter it to make it 'better' but you end up making it worse!

Never seen him in the flesh, sadly. I'm really looking forward to Golden Shears 2022 - it's being held in Scotland, at the Highland Show

 

[Tubbylew]

i lowered the pendulum a fair bit (3/4inch approx.)to see the difference, it now looks low to me in relation to the spindle and pics/advice ...but its made a noticeable difference to the lines ir
..... on the comb (different comb ) if you can see them in the pic?

View attachment 891060

I reckon thats bob on, grinding gear is an art in itself but once you've got the settings you'll be away.

 

[J-ham]

That looks a lot better to me




Contrary to the heiniger paper posted above, you shouldn't run the comb off the edge of the disc. It's only a fraction of time, but it isn't getting ground when the rest of the comb still is. To get an even grind, the whole comb needs ground the same

As I understand it, the idea of running off the edge is because the outside of the plate is moving much faster than the inside. Throwing 3 teeth off the edge prevents over grinding and excessive heat build up.

 

[shearerlad]

Missed a bit of this thread.

i lowered the pendulum a fair bit (3/4inch approx.)to see the difference, it now looks low to me in relation to the spindle and pics/advice ...but its made a noticeable difference to the lines ir
..... on the comb (different comb ) if you can see them in the pic?

View attachment 891060

I reckon you are about spot on th

One of mine for comparison.
There is different theories on grinding. Main thing is to be consistent

 

[Nithsdale]

As I understand it, the idea of running off the edge is because the outside of the plate is moving much faster than the inside. Throwing 3 teeth off the edge prevents over grinding and excessive heat build up.

That's just a theory and I don't believe there's anything proven in it.

It's not safe to take the comb or cutter beyond the edge of the disk, IMO.

 

[Bury the Trash]

Missed a bit of this thread.



I reckon you are about spot on th
View attachment 891107
One of mine for comparison.
There is different theories on grinding. Main thing is to be consistent

Funny how even where your feet are makes a difference to how you approach the wheel , didn't consider it at all until JD Kidd said about it. Now I look to get them in the same position each time before starting.

 

[Bury the Trash]

That's just a theory and I don't believe there's anything proven in it.

It's not safe to take the comb or cutter beyond the edge of the disk, IMO.

Yes , good point, I slipped off the edge having gone to far once and ground half the nail away on my first finger .



I need some new papers as well ones I got left are too old even if they haven't been used .

 

[Nithsdale]

Yes , good point, I slipped off the edge having gone to far once and ground half the nail away on my first finger .



I need some new papers as well ones I got left are too old even if they haven't been used .

When I was just learning, I swung a cutter out onto the edge of the disc. I'd guess 1/4-1/3 the cutter went 'off'... well the wee bugger grew wings and flew. Won't make that mistake again!

 

[J-ham]

That's just a theory and I don't believe there's anything proven in it.

It's not safe to take the comb or cutter beyond the edge of the disk, IMO.

I think it's something Heiniger were looking at seriously about 20 years ago, trying to get an even heat across the comb during grinding to prevent adverse effect on the tempering. I'm sure I remember Tom Wilson telling us that he'd been working with them developing a comb that had a couple of big, strategically positioned holes in it to reduce the amount of excess metal in contact with the plate, supposedly keeping it cooler during grinding. Obviously it wasn't a success. I'm in full agreement about not putting cutters over the edge btw.

 

[tepapa]

Going off the edge with 3 teeth is so you use the whole paper the same amount.
If you put a comb next to the nut and mark the other side. Then place the comb on the mark it will be three teeth over the edge. If you don't go off the edge, a piece in the centre of the paper is always grinding steel so it'll wear out quicker then the rest of the paper.
Think that was the theory.
Just change papers sooner and don't go off the edge.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I think it's something Heiniger were looking at seriously about 20 years ago, trying to get an even heat across the comb during grinding to prevent adverse effect on the tempering. I'm sure I remember Tom Wilson telling us that he'd been working with them developing a comb that had a couple of big, strategically positioned holes in it to reduce the amount of excess metal in contact with the plate, supposedly keeping it cooler during grinding. Obviously it wasn't a success. I'm in full agreement about not putting cutters over the edge btw.

I Notice In the vid above David Fagan is saying not go off the edge, but then I expect Lister would make sure he says that to just to get a different angle on it to Heiniger, just to set themselves apart maybe, .

 

[shearerlad]

@tepapa beat me too it
That’s the theory that Tom Wilson, Johnny Kirkpatrick, Selwyn Williams and others have explained to me.

 

[tepapa]

I

supershear pendulum , in good nick,
i' ll lengthen him a bit and have another go , would (finishing ) position on disc horizontally make any difference to the lines ? as i guess closer to the spindle would be a tighter circle .

i noticed this morning that he actually is hanging a bit too close from the top which would teeth grind a bit more than heel grind tbh so ill move him off from the to a bit as well...

trouble is with only one hanging point and disc means i'll have to alter everything each time for cutters and combs, could put a nick on the pendulum tho as mark . when i'm happy with the length. not sure about using 60 grit tho..

about pressure, i have very recently tried more pressure to get sparks from all teeth evenly, and that's seems better , without getting too hot.before i had some parts where there was very few sparks , but i find i need to push bit harder than the '2k bag of sugar' they said on the woolboard course

I'd get a second pendulum and set the heights with one for combs and one for cutters. Always have the heel touching the disk first. Your finishing position wants to be with the pendulum hanging straight down and length wants to be when the sparks are straight up and down in the centre.
Take plenty of steel off to make it sharp and change papers often. It isn't any more complicated than that. Don't follow the heiniger instructions. They're fine for a heiniger grinder with heiniger gear.

 

[shearerlad]

I Notice In the vid above David Fagan is saying not go off the edge, but then I expect Lister would make sure he says that to just to get a different angle on it to Heiniger, just to set themselves apart maybe, .

Dave was heavily involved with the design in the heiniger icon hand piece and many of combs before he joined lister.
Takinh 3 teeth off the edge is a heiniger USP

 

[Jackov Altraids]

Quick question, sorry if the answer is buried somewhere in this thread, but what is the best and cheapest lube to use on the handpiece?
Clipper oils seem quite expensive. Can you mix your own?
I've ordered some PTFE 'dry' spray lubricant which sounds perfect. Is it OK to use PTFE?

 

[Bury the Trash]

Quick question, sorry if the answer is buried somewhere in this thread, but what is the best and cheapest lube to use on the handpiece?
Clipper oils seem quite expensive. Can you mix your own?
I've ordered some PTFE 'dry' spray lubricant which sounds perfect. Is it OK to use PTFE?

i shouldnt think its substantial enough.

on a handpiece yr suposed to use sae 30 oil. mole valley sell it lawnmower engine oil by the 5l can.

but i use mineral /old type engine oil tbh if i aint got none.

 

[hendrebc]

Quick question, sorry if the answer is buried somewhere in this thread, but what is the best and cheapest lube to use on the handpiece?
Clipper oils seem quite expensive. Can you mix your own?
I've ordered some PTFE 'dry' spray lubricant which sounds perfect. Is it OK to use PTFE?

I didn't know they were fussy and have always used universal tractor oil.

 

[Bury the Trash]

I didn't know they were fussy and have always used universal tractor oil.

keep plenty on'em is the main the thing, or little and often rather...

 

[JD-Kid]

I didn't know they were fussy and have always used universal tractor oil.

old saying faster something moves the thinner the oil
have heard that handpiece oil is hydraulic oil so UTO will be ok
alot of guys just buy the cheapest oil in a 4 lt pack

 

[Gator]

I didn't know they were fussy and have always used universal tractor oil.

same here