Sheep breeds why?

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
The Americans also do shear testing for eating quality I believe.

Shear testing is also done on a proportion of the progeny from each ram used on RamCompare here too, with each sire ranked on it.

That could also be selected for and improved, if there was a will/economic benefit to do so. But again, it require people to use ebvs in their selections, rather than pretty ears being the main criteria for a ‘good ‘un’.

Without that acceptance, there won’t be any improvement in ‘eating quality’ here, other than a bit of hearsay from those with Hereford/Angus/Shorthorn/Portland/Jacobs/etc to sell.
 

Anymulewilldo

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Cheshire
The Americans have genomic testing for tenderness based on shear test results. You can pick bulls based on the tenderness of their offspring. I wasn't lying when I said UK beef and sheep industries are decades behind when it comes to eating quality.
I don’t know, we are a lot of beef and lamb last time we were over there. I didn’t rate either. The lamb was just crap and the beef had no taste at all too it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
 
Does that mean 2 hill breeds, two Downland breeds and only space for 2 continentals ?
The Aussies seem to do alright with fewer breeds. Merinos bred pure for wool and mutton/ some lamb, or put to Border Leicester rams for first cross prime lamb and breeding females. First cross ewes put to Southdown/ Dorset/ White Suffolk rams to produce superb second cross lambs. Dorpers for those who don’t want wool and the associated hassle. These six breeds would still account for a serious percentage of their sheep, I would think. Wool value is the obvious difference between their system and that of the UK.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
I don’t know, we are a lot of beef and lamb last time we were over there. I didn’t rate either. The lamb was just crap and the beef had no taste at all too it. 🤷🏻‍♂️
Tenderness doesn't equal flavour though, which is all shear quality tests. A lot of US beef and lamb is feedlot/grain finished - maybe that makes the difference?
 
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Bury the Trash

Member
Mixed Farmer
Exlana sheep are a compo
I have previously described the Exlanas I have lambed as like Lleyns, but without the need to shear them. The Lleyns I had here had the same inability to count to two, although one of the (few) remaining ones managed to count to four this year, her two and two of someone else’s. I couldn’t sort them out so I put a mark on all four, ready to be able to pick up the inevitable abandoned ones a day or two later, when they’d made their minds up.

Six weeks later, both ewes are still usually together, and rearing all 4 lambs well enough between them.
i wont take any notice of yrs then.
because my Exlana and Lleyn or that matter are lovely mothers , atm i cant remember a bad one, noticably,very notably in fact, in this yrs ewe lambs , not a bad mother amongst them must've got good milk nas well lambs are doing like demons. that's about 85 .fair trial ir.
mind you a bit ofTexel has got into them :whistle: :sneaky:which makes them need a bit of a clip up /scruffy atm (which doesnt bother me at all)but their lambs look like theyre going to go quicker and better covered ,
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
This takes the thread back to where it started. Why do you have Lleyns for example which you are happy with whereas others (me included) have tried them from different sources and found them poor mothers compared in my case with average mules?
This chart I posted earlier holds answers.......:p
heterosis.png
 
What does the production response relate to and how will it be measured. Does it take into account things like mothering ability etc. Also if you are comparing different breeds the starting point will not be the same so a flatter line may still be better for a long time than one that is climbing more steeply
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
What does the production response relate to and how will it be measured. Does it take into account things like mothering ability etc. Also if you are comparing different breeds the starting point will not be the same so a flatter line may still be better for a long time than one that is climbing more steeply
Its the production traits that you are selecting for.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Its the production traits that you are selecting for.

Which is worth what? All the Exlana females I’ve bought in have been in the top quartile on index, yet they have been (sadly) lacking on those maternal traits that the breed selects for.
I’m well aware that many on here have been very happy with them, which was a substantial part of me being willing to take a decent sized punt on them, but they have so far disappointed on every measure apart from shedding ability.

I’m not fussed about ‘breed’ labels or Bonny heads (although I can appreciate the cosmetic appeal), and just aspire to run a flock of medium sized, white faced, efficient grazing sheep. I’ve got that already, but would be more than happy if I didn’t have to worry about shearing or fly treatments, to the extent that I was willing to accept the poorer confirmation (to a degree).
Quite frankly I am gutted that they have been so poor, quite apart from the financial loss incurred. I started by making excuses for them in my mind, but I’ve given up doing so, and just thank my lucky stars I don’t have a flock of them to contend with.:(
 

Ysgythan

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Ammanford
Which is worth what? All the Exlana females I’ve bought in have been in the top quartile on index, yet they have been (sadly) lacking on those maternal traits that the breed selects for.
I’m well aware that many on here have been very happy with them, which was a substantial part of me being willing to take a decent sized punt on them, but they have so far disappointed on every measure apart from shedding ability.

I’m not fussed about ‘breed’ labels or Bonny heads (although I can appreciate the cosmetic appeal), and just aspire to run a flock of medium sized, white faced, efficient grazing sheep. I’ve got that already, but would be more than happy if I didn’t have to worry about shearing or fly treatments, to the extent that I was willing to accept the poorer confirmation (to a degree).
Quite frankly I am gutted that they have been so poor, quite apart from the financial loss incurred. I started by making excuses for them in my mind, but I’ve given up doing so, and just thank my lucky stars I don’t have a flock of them to contend with.:(

to be fair if you have one trait you have to select for it crowds out the others and it takes a lot of time to stabilise and bring those other traits through. EBVs may help but there’s nothing like tens of thousands of sheep covering a whole area with a range of farmers competing but with a common goal for establishing a breed.
 
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Its the production traits that you are selecting for.
To my mind this looks fine if you are selecting for a single trait and it may become excellent in that. But I want a sheep that is above average in a wide range of areas not just excelling in a few. A sheep that has a very high score for one thing but is poor in other areas is not what I want.

I remember years ago when we kept pigs that the top performing farms were not those that had the best farrowing index or best growth rate etc it was those that were slightly better than average in all areas because of the cumulative affect.

This must be the same for sheep so the approach illustrated by the graph seems over simplistic because the reality is much more complex

Perhaps this partly answers my original question. If somebody is focussed on just one trait, say shedding , then a sheep that sheds has produced what he wants and he ignores deficiencies in other areas which would be unacceptable to others
 

unlacedgecko

Member
Livestock Farmer
Location
Fife
To my mind this looks fine if you are selecting for a single trait and it may become excellent in that. But I want a sheep that is above average in a wide range of areas not just excelling in a few. A sheep that has a very high score for one thing but is poor in other areas is not what I want.

I remember years ago when we kept pigs that the top performing farms were not those that had the best farrowing index or best growth rate etc it was those that were slightly better than average in all areas because of the cumulative affect.

This must be the same for sheep so the approach illustrated by the graph seems over simplistic because the reality is much more complex

Perhaps this partly answers my original question. If somebody is focussed on just one trait, say shedding , then a sheep that sheds has produced what he wants and he ignores deficiencies in other areas which would be unacceptable to others

Select some key traits you won't compromise on. That's the quality line. Then select for traits you want to improve on.

Replacement females must meet the quality line. Then rank according to secondary traits and select the top however many you want to retain.

What this quality line is and what the secondary traits are will vary from flock to flock.

As to the graph, I understand that it can be applied to selected individual traits or genetic merit as a whole.
 

SteveHants

Member
Livestock Farmer
Which is worth what? All the Exlana females I’ve bought in have been in the top quartile on index, yet they have been (sadly) lacking on those maternal traits that the breed selects for.
I’m well aware that many on here have been very happy with them, which was a substantial part of me being willing to take a decent sized punt on them, but they have so far disappointed on every measure apart from shedding ability.

I’m not fussed about ‘breed’ labels or Bonny heads (although I can appreciate the cosmetic appeal), and just aspire to run a flock of medium sized, white faced, efficient grazing sheep. I’ve got that already, but would be more than happy if I didn’t have to worry about shearing or fly treatments, to the extent that I was willing to accept the poorer confirmation (to a degree).
Quite frankly I am gutted that they have been so poor, quite apart from the financial loss incurred. I started by making excuses for them in my mind, but I’ve given up doing so, and just thank my lucky stars I don’t have a flock of them to contend with.:(

The graph was actually taken from a pamphlet aimed at beef producers, and is generally applicable to whatever breeding you are doing.
Sorry to hear about your Exlanas though. I take it you bought females and not a ram to breed the wool off your current flock?
My selection was certainly ongoing and I definitely bred up from my best performing ewes.
They definitely suited my system but really only bought from two places, and one of those could only supply me with mostly sheep that performed very well, but didn't shed properly, so then put an Exlana ram over and bred up from that.
Personally, I think they like a bit of space to lamb in, run on at bcs 2.5 and generally want leaving alone, but you may already be doing this.
 

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quote: “Red Tractor has confirmed it is dropping plans to launch its green farming assurance standard in April“

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