Sheep welfare funding

[glasshouse]

was it not a labour government that set F+M away

No
That was new labour
(Tory)

 

[Razor8]

what price would lambs need to be if supports were abandoned in UK

 

[neilo]

what price would lambs need to be if supports were abandoned in UK

About where they are now?

Cue lots of boos & hisses from those running high cost systems…

 

[Razor8]

Rub it in why don’t you…

its all welcome but costs are getting out of control. fert, meal, diesel

land rent in Ireland is extortionate in comparison to uk

best land making €300 an acre plus, average €200 plus that would struggle to stock 4 ewes a acre

 

[neilo]

its all welcome but costs are getting out of control. fert, meal, diesel

land rent in Ireland is extortionate in comparison to uk

best land making €300 an acre plus, average €200 plus that would struggle to stock 4 ewes a acre

Is there not a connection between govt support and the increased rents folks are willing to bid on the open market?

 

[Paul86]

Is there not a connection between govt support and the increased rents folks are willing to bid on the open market?

Not really, In ireland, any 5 year lease term or longer is tax free income for the land owner.
So say the tenant is paying 200 a acre and drawing 100 a acre entitlements on said land, the general rule is to pay the 300 back as "rent" so the owner is getting all (rent and entitlements) tax free. So I wouldn't say its government support that's driving it, more the lack of availability of it.

 

[Anymulewilldo]

Not really, In ireland, any 5 year lease term or longer is tax free income for the land owner.
So say the tenant is paying 200 a acre and drawing 100 a acre entitlements on said land, the general rule is to pay the 300 back as "rent" so the owner is getting all (rent and entitlements) tax free. So I wouldn't say its government support that's driving it, more the lack of availability of it.

That’s just wrong

 

[Paul86]

That’s just wrong

It not always like this in some cases the tenant might keep 50% of the value or the entitlements.
From 2023 on in the new cap 25% of the entitlement value will only be got through doing two eco measures so hopefully this means that that 25% will stay with tenants.

 

[farmerm]

ill vote tory

problem is the alternative would push us in front of the bus and then shoot us in both knees before it arrives

 

[neilo]

Not really, In ireland, any 5 year lease term or longer is tax free income for the land owner.
So say the tenant is paying 200 a acre and drawing 100 a acre entitlements on said land, the general rule is to pay the 300 back as "rent" so the owner is getting all (rent and entitlements) tax free. So I wouldn't say its government support that's driving it, more the lack of availability of it.

The government support is still inflating the rent in that scenario, which has been increased to pay for the landlord’s entitlements.
If that support wasn’t there, you wouldn’t be willing to bid as much for it.

 

[Tim W]

The government support is still inflating the rent in that scenario, which has been increased to pay for the landlord’s entitlements.
If that support wasn’t there, you wouldn’t be willing to bid as much for it.

Obviously ----land based support in the main goes to reward land ownership , which is immoral IMO

 

[mar]

Obviously ----land based support in the main goes to reward land ownership , which is immoral IMO

They are trying to do away with it, get rid of the arm chair farmer but it is easier said than done

 

[farmerm]

what price would lambs need to be if supports were abandoned in UK

its not really if but when...

and it depends on ones stocking rate, making up the lost £230/ha income requires a far greater increase per head when your low input, perm pasture can support 1 ewe per ac than if you can stock 7

 

[Tim W]

They are trying to do away with it, get rid of the arm chair farmer but it is easier said than done

Too many vested interests?

 

[glasshouse]

Too many vested interests?

Exactly
Franz fischler got it spot on in 2004 with the sfp being the property of the tenant and not chargeable against rent.
The landed interests wasted no time in overturning that though.

 

[neilo]

Exactly
Franz fischler got it spot on in 2004 with the sfp being the property of the tenant and not chargeable against rent.
The landed interests wasted no time in overturning that though.

Entitlements are still owned by the tenant, assuming a proper tenant, and not just a grazier on a 364 day agreement.

Obviously the landlord knows that the tenant has the benefit of subsidy income though, so is reflected in the rent.

 

[glasshouse]

Entitlements are still owned by the tenant, assuming a proper tenant, and not just a grazier on a 364 day agreement.

Obviously the landlord knows that the tenant has the benefit of subsidy income though, so is reflected in the rent.

Totally different in scotland.

 

[glasshouse]

Entitlements are still owned by the tenant, assuming a proper tenant, and not just a grazier on a 364 day agreement.

Obviously the landlord knows that the tenant has the benefit of subsidy income though, so is reflected in the rent.

Entitlements are worthless now as there is no spare land to shift them to as all the landlords have registered their land and applied for entitlements.

 

[unlacedgecko]

what price would lambs need to be if supports were abandoned in UK

I suspect we're about to find out.

 

[Devil's advocate]

Landlords are friends to tenants though & give many who could not afford to buy land the chance to farm.

I'm very grateful to my landlord & think he has had a raw deal.