Sheep Worrying Conviction

JMcA

Member
Livestock Farmer
We had two dogs this year on a jolly together from two different addresses. An independent person filmed them kill and eat a lamb, probably killed more as they were three miles from home.

We caught one dog and kept it for the police to arrive. The owners of both dogs done a plea deal, paid the farmer £70 each, recieved a warning and that was it. If it is safe to do so and you have permission from the land owner, shoot the dog. Its the only way dog owners learn sadly.
 

Estate fencing.

Member
Livestock Farmer
I had a message on some group on phone on Sunday night that someone had lost there dog, it was reported that the dog had hit my electric fence and ran off, I wrote that why wasn't it on the lead in the first place and if I found it in the morning amongst the sheep it would be shot (I can't because don't even have a gun), it caused a bit of panic to say the least, luckily they found it first thing but my ewes where out so must have pushed them through the fence. I don't think anyone will be walking next to my ewes for a while.
 
Just be careful. Writing on social media or telling a dog owner that you are going to shoot a dog found in your sheep could easily be considered a threat. I doubt using any gun on your FAC is within the law to shoot a dog, I thought all FAC weapons have a strict use imposed, therefore only shotguns up to 3 shot can be used.

Just be aware that it might be you in court facing a clever solicitor if you go too far.

I shot an imported stray 'rescue' dog that had attacked three of my sheep. The owner paid me for the sheep and disposal on the day and collected his dog. To be honest I think he was at his wits end with the dog and I did him a favour.
 

Smith31

Member
A older farmer near us had similar worrying issue, the owners of the dogs gave him abuse when he confronted them. His son who lived 100+ miles away heard and bought a pit bull/ boxer type dog, soon after he caught a dog in the farmers fields he attacked, locked its jaws and wouldn't let go, the neighbouring dogs and owners soon got the message.

The funny thing is whenever I visited the farm, the dog was the most playful animal on the farm.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
I had a message on some group on phone on Sunday night that someone had lost there dog, it was reported that the dog had hit my electric fence and ran off, I wrote that why wasn't it on the lead in the first place and if I found it in the morning amongst the sheep it would be shot (I can't because don't even have a gun), it caused a bit of panic to say the least, luckily they found it first thing but my ewes where out so must have pushed them through the fence. I don't think anyone will be walking next to my ewes for a while.

I may have let similar statements slip out too… and fortunately not had to shoot one yet.

Previous tenant here told me that he used to lose a few shots off in early March, behind a hedge next to the town. Then he’d go to the pub at night (as he did every night) and usually get somebody mention it, asking if he was shooting rabbits or something. “No”, he used to say, “just clearing a few dogs up before lambing”.😂

Got to keep at ‘em.
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Anyone who has never had a dog chase a rabbit or stray after an in season bitch has never owned a dog! :rolleyes: Just bear in mind that not every dog in a field with a sheep in it is a killer. Shoot a dog and you will probably be called upon to answer for it. The law used to say, "Every dog is allowed one bite" -- to prove it is vicious. A pity if it now follows the Badger Act and assums guilt without the requirement of proof.

I have kept a LOT of dogs over a long lifetime starting with hunting a pack of hounds in my teens. I once did a count and was surprised to realised that I had exported my dogs to over 30 countries world-wide. (Anyone with quality doesn't sell them locally and set others up to undercut the market). In that time, I think less than half a dozen dogs have got lost/strayed but, hey!, we live in the countryside and work with animals that are by their nature unpredictable. Accidents happen. But my dogs are trained. If one of mine DID stray and got shot, I would be on the case very quickly.

Bear in mind that a working dog can be very valuable. (I sold one for the equivalent of £35,000 to Mr Bridgestone Tyres). If the owner can prove it was well trained and unlikely to have attacked livestock, the shooter is going to have to justify his actions and that could be expensive.

Yes, I have been on the receiving end too. I didn't have to take extreme measures as the dog warden was very understanding and pointed out to the owner that it is an offence to allow a dog to stray. I also printed out a copy of the Act which stated that a dog could be shot for worrying and included that with the body of a dead hen in a super market carrier bag and hung it on his gate!

Sadly, dog training in the UK is at an all time low and everyone thinks it is all done with treats. Now we have everyone buying a dog because they work from home. It is good news that the fine for worrying (at least in Scotland) is now substantial but I hope the courts will also apply a realistic approach or we might as well bring back hanging for sheep stealing.
 

neilo

Member
Mixed Farmer
Location
Montgomeryshire
Anyone who has never had a dog chase a rabbit or stray after an in season bitch has never owned a dog! :rolleyes: Just bear in mind that not every dog in a field with a sheep in it is a killer. Shoot a dog and you will probably be called upon to answer for it. The law used to say, "Every dog is allowed one bite" -- to prove it is vicious. A pity if it now follows the Badger Act and assums guilt without the requirement of proof.

I have kept a LOT of dogs over a long lifetime starting with hunting a pack of hounds in my teens. I once did a count and was surprised to realised that I had exported my dogs to over 30 countries world-wide. (Anyone with quality doesn't sell them locally and set others up to undercut the market). In that time, I think less than half a dozen dogs have got lost/strayed but, hey!, we live in the countryside and work with animals that are by their nature unpredictable. Accidents happen. But my dogs are trained. If one of mine DID stray and got shot, I would be on the case very quickly.

Bear in mind that a working dog can be very valuable. (I sold one for the equivalent of £35,000 to Mr Bridgestone Tyres). If the owner can prove it was well trained and unlikely to have attacked livestock, the shooter is going to have to justify his actions and that could be expensive.

Yes, I have been on the receiving end too. I didn't have to take extreme measures as the dog warden was very understanding and pointed out to the owner that it is an offence to allow a dog to stray. I also printed out a copy of the Act which stated that a dog could be shot for worrying and included that with the body of a dead hen in a super market carrier bag and hung it on his gate!

Sadly, dog training in the UK is at an all time low and everyone thinks it is all done with treats. Now we have everyone buying a dog because they work from home. It is good news that the fine for worrying (at least in Scotland) is now substantial but I hope the courts will also apply a realistic approach or we might as well bring back hanging for sheep stealing.

I was always told that you should always have a handful of wool in your pocket when you shoot a dog for worrying. :censored:
 

Highland Mule

Member
Livestock Farmer
Anyone who has never had a dog chase a rabbit or stray after an in season bitch has never owned a dog! :rolleyes: Just bear in mind that not every dog in a field with a sheep in it is a killer. Shoot a dog and you will probably be called upon to answer for it. The law used to say, "Every dog is allowed one bite" -- to prove it is vicious. A pity if it now follows the Badger Act and assums guilt without the requirement of proof.

Got to disagree with you there, although I do recognise my position is a bit black and white.

Anyone who has had a dog chase a rabbit or stray after an in season bitch didn't have that dog on a lead or under close control. Whilst not every dog in a field with a sheep is a killer, it is a sheep worrier if it's not on a lead or under close control. And no, no dog should be allowed one bite - plenty of sheep can be injured and result in losses without any biting (see earlier reports of lamb losses due to worrying of pregnant ewes).
 

Dry Rot

Member
Livestock Farmer
Got to disagree with you there, although I do recognise my position is a bit black and white.

Anyone who has had a dog chase a rabbit or stray after an in season bitch didn't have that dog on a lead or under close control. Whilst not every dog in a field with a sheep is a killer, it is a sheep worrier if it's not on a lead or under close control. And no, no dog should be allowed one bite - plenty of sheep can be injured and result in losses without any biting (see earlier reports of lamb losses due to worrying of pregnant ewes).

One Bite Rule: The owner is liable if he or she knew or should have known that the animal might act in a dangerous or harmful way. The name of this theory comes from the idea that an animal gets one free bite, and after that, the owner is aware of and responsible for the animal's vicious propensities.​

It is clear that you never trained a dog. At least, not successfully.
 

Moors Lad

Member
Location
N Yorks
Most of my life I have bred, trained, and hunted working gundogs. Pointers and setters (my speciality) can hunt a very wide area. Yet they may still be under 'strict control', let alone not "worrying livestock". I always regarded a dog that could not be stopped or 'dropped' at at least 100 yards as
I farm common land and am just about at my wits end because people WILL NOT keep their dogs on a lead (or at least at heel), in fact it will not be long now before our flock is withdrawn from said common despite our family having had sheep on there for several generations..
Sadly the English legislation is just a blinking joke . 2 years ago we had a 3 day abortion storm among twin-bearing ewes - cost a fortune as well as being heart-breaking - the offending dog is still around and the owner just denies it!!
I`m totally sick of abuse and smart answers even when I ask politely - even the National Park wardens get abuse too.
What really gets on my t*t end is knowledgeable people like this^^^^ who still think their dog is under control when it`s 100 yards from them and sheep are going all ways. Boy do I get totally sick of smart arses who just will NOT put the blasted thing on a lead.
DIDN`T THINK I`D FIND ONE ON HERE! :mad:
 

Ffermer Bach

Member
Livestock Farmer
I farm common land and am just about at my wits end because people WILL NOT keep their dogs on a lead (or at least at heel), in fact it will not be long now before our flock is withdrawn from said common despite our family having had sheep on there for several generations..
Sadly the English legislation is just a blinking joke . 2 years ago we had a 3 day abortion storm among twin-bearing ewes - cost a fortune as well as being heart-breaking - the offending dog is still around and the owner just denies it!!
I`m totally sick of abuse and smart answers even when I ask politely - even the National Park wardens get abuse too.
What really gets on my t*t end is knowledgeable people like this^^^^ who still think their dog is under control when it`s 100 yards from them and sheep are going all ways. Boy do I get totally sick of smart arses who just will NOT put the blasted thing on a lead.
DIDN`T THINK I`D FIND ONE ON HERE! :mad:
of course, what will happen is, you will stop grazing your moor, then it will be covered in Molinia, then eventually someone will BBQ and up it will all go!
 

harrow

Member
In our case,
Step 1 get a dog control order on the dog.
Step 2 the dog was out of control again owners and police dog handlers could not catch the dog.
step 3 the police made sure the dog was destroyed.
 

pgk

Member
Has anyone been successful in securing a conviction for sheep worrying? Google isn't bringing up many success stories. On Friday our neighbour's dog (gsd) jumped their fence in to our neighbouring field which contained 2 of our ram lambs (thankfully not our ewes). I heard barking and went out and found 1 x lamb and the dog in the stream. Lamb 2 nowhere to be seen, I thought that we were going to find him drowned in the stream. Luckily we found him about an hour later, 2 fields away in with our ewes. He had been bitten underneath.
I caught the dog and returned it to the owner who then refused to come and help look for the sheep because she was 'too upset' because I shouted and swore at her! Apparently it was my fault for putting sheep next to their house. I have a text message trail where it is clear that they are admitting it happened. Dog has form for not being under control. It has run out and chased me down the road on my horse and done the same to a runner. No apologies either time.
I have reported to the police and told them I want the owners convicted. The PC I have been allocated seems pretty hopeless. Currently in the process of writing up my statement. Neighbours are yet to be spoken to by the police. We have a good local rural crime team. Apparently they will be informed but will not get involved as they deal with 'higher profile ' incidents. I will contact them directly if I have no joy progressing this with my local PC. No great financial loss for us but it is the principle. It could have been a lot worse and I want to be sure it doesn't happen again. The injured lamb was bitten on his penis so no good for breeding now, so I will be seeking compensation for loss of value. No vets bills, as yet, it has been ok with just a clean up and we are keeping an eye on him, in case of infection.

I generally don't put stock behind the neighbour's house for exactly this reason but annoyingly it is our only field with permanent fencing so the ram lambs do need to be there at this time of year. Luckily I text the neighbours informing them the sheep were in there when I moved them in a few weeks ago. All screen shot and sent to the police. Any tips? Has anyone been through similar? It's the lack of apology/willingness to admit fault that gets me. I would be mortified if my dog did that and would be going out of my way to make amends.
Just going through this at the present time. In summer we had constant problems with lambs breaking through electric fence, then lamb found with ears bitten off, escalated over a couple of weeks, lost a few lambs, reports of 2 black dogs being seen, son caught both chasing our ewes. I have had to draft mine and sons witness statement, visit neighbours to find one who had seen ewe worrying and son catching dogs, chased them down in his 4x4 til one collapsed. After twice refusing a community resolution CPS opted to offer a caution, woman refused it and matter is now court bound. Odd as she had no option but to accept it was her dogs as we had them in our kennels for some hours and only when Police called her did she realise they were out yet again. Turns out they are always out but usually travel much further, she never exercises them. We are pushing for a criminal conviction as all previous incidents she has got cheque book out but suffered no formal action. Thus my attempt to get a destruction order failed at the first hurdle. I shall be sending her a bill shortly and if unpaid she will be having a second day in court!
 

Sprig

Member
Just going through this at the present time. In summer we had constant problems with lambs breaking through electric fence, then lamb found with ears bitten off, escalated over a couple of weeks, lost a few lambs, reports of 2 black dogs being seen, son caught both chasing our ewes. I have had to draft mine and sons witness statement, visit neighbours to find one who had seen ewe worrying and son catching dogs, chased them down in his 4x4 til one collapsed. After twice refusing a community resolution CPS opted to offer a caution, woman refused it and matter is now court bound. Odd as she had no option but to accept it was her dogs as we had them in our kennels for some hours and only when Police called her did she realise they were out yet again. Turns out they are always out but usually travel much further, she never exercises them. We are pushing for a criminal conviction as all previous incidents she has got cheque book out but suffered no formal action. Thus my attempt to get a destruction order failed at the first hurdle. I shall be sending her a bill shortly and if unpaid she will be having a second day in court!
What a nightmare. I would be really interested in how you get on.
 
Location
southwest
Lot of misinformation, assumptions and downright lies on this thread.

Farmers DO NOT have a right to shot any dog in the same field as their sheep. Would you shoot a pack of hounds if the hunt went in the wrong field? Or your neighbour's sheep dog if the neighbour stopped by for a chat. No, because the dog is under control, and as has been said, a dog doesn't have to be on a lead (or even within a few feet of the owner to be "under control"

"Six of ewes had dead lambs inside them, which I would attribute to recent dog worrying" Ewes only lose lambs du to dog worrying, do they?

And as for expecting the police to take someone to Court over an incident that didn't even require a vet to attend-WTF!
 

flowerpot

Member
We had some sheep here on winter keep. A neighbour had come round saying they had lost their dogs, had we seen them? No, will they chase sheep? No, we have sheep in the adjoining field by the house.

So the next day OH and son found the dogs chasing and catching the sheep in our field. Several badly injured, some PTS. Later some lost lambs. The owners of the sheep put the matter straight into the hands of - NFU? Land Agent? and definitely had a vet out.

The owner of the dogs came round to use and put some money down on our kitchen table, but we said that they weren't our sheep.

In the end it cost them £1,000s, far more than they had insurance cover for. The dogs were not put down, but I have never seen them since, apart from their garden. Yes, they did have sheep in the field next to the house, but I guess they were "their" sheep and thus part of the household (they were a french sheepdog breed).

Also similar situation a few years before when an older man exercising a big strong dog got away and chased some sheep in another of our fields. The owner of the sheep took the dog owner to court after he refused to pay compensation, though he did have the unfortunate dog PTS, but then he had to go to court anyway and pay.

So we are not that keen on having sheep here, being right next to the village.
 

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