Should He Pay the Dealer?

[jd6820]

Must admit I’m slightly baffled by the fact that by Saturday afternoon they’d sent another lad out to assist, now you’d assume that by the stage you’re having to send someone else you’d send someone with half an idea? Yet they continued to pull the cab to bits!

I too am surprised they took the approach they did? I know the favourite area is; short circuits at the corner post, but there are plenty of connection points to isolate the fault before removing loads of cab panels and disturbing the harness unnecessarily. But I'd say/hope these were young tech's just starting in the game?

I'd expect the dealer to adjust the bill to a lower rate than full labour to account for the incomplete repair. Maybe to the mechanics base rate i.e. their wages just to cover costs? They've got to learn somewhere and sadly the nice shiny clean machines (partly assembled chassis) at Langar don't really offer any real world training. I remember my first jobs, I wasn't efficient to start off with and I had a background in Electronics and Computing to degree level before starting in the Ag trade.

The other problem, is those who have the initiative often end up working for themselves leaving the dealer with the remaining staff, some of who may be inexperienced... This scenario demonstrates that perfectly I'd say.

 

[Farmer Fin]

So the dealers lads have not managed to repair the tractor and gone off down the wrong route in 16 hours. Every one has to learn and makes mistakes and the cost of this is covered in the hourly rate that dealers charge.
Go in today and talk to the service manager. Explain the situation and that you will not be paying as they have not fixed the tractor. It would be different if after 16 hrs they had found the fault then yes you would expect to pay part of the bill.

 

[Will 1594]

Regarding training ,
Our local indepedant landrover garage ,he farms next door , does not charge untill he finds a fault he has never come across,only time to fix it , he calls it his training ,
Even the big posh jlr garage in town takes stuff to him to sort ,not much he and his lads dont know about rr and land rovers

 

[Martin Holden]

Interesting thread to follow. I would put this point across. Many a time when you are finding faults you think of the worst case scenario and pile into things without standing back and thinking about the simplest things. When I was younger I would think like this. Today and with that vital more experience and realisation that panic doesn’t help, you start to think of what’s more likely. Modern machines with miles more wiring harnesses are bound to throw up more “testers” for engineers. Still, hopefully the dealers lads will learn from this and put this into their memory banks. Discuss with the dealer and I’m sure a compromise can be sorted

 

[Loftyrules]

OP probably doesn't bill out at £85/hr

Probably doesn’t have the same overheads to cover though.
Did the farmer ring the dealer and say that you were coming out as the lads hadn’t fixed it yet?

 

[egbert]

Staff retention has always been an issue for ag dealers!
lets face it, if someone offered you £10 an hour to work on machinery that’s sh!t up to the eyeballs (sometimes human muck!), heavy as hell and usually stuck in the middle of a field. Or for the same or more money you can work in an automotive or hgv workshop, what would you do?
Trouble is ag dealerships are now charging the same rates as commercial dealers but not passing it to front line staff, pay peanuts you get monkeys ?

Which flags another problem.
So the lad on site is getting £10/hour,
and another £10/hour needs be attributed to a % of the service managers wage, the admins wage, rent and rates on the dealers site,
and another £10/hour for the van, tools, widgets, and a contingency for the non-payers etc.
and of course the owner of the dealership might be expecting £10/hour for return on his investment - my nearest has been bought by a working investor.

Where does the rest of the money go?

I notice a sparky doing some work for me last week carried no fewer expensive widgets, displayed no lesser tech knowledge - s'far as I could see from my caveman standpoint- but charges less than half what the JD dealer charges...and gets results...which isn't always the case elsewhere in my life.

I've said more than once, to our brilliant local 'man/van/box of spanners (who charges rather less than the dealer, and is run ragged with work) that he should charge more, and do less. This would encourage more to venture into the trade.

 

[Farmer Fin]

Which flags another problem.
So the lad on site is getting £10/hour,
and another £10/hour needs be attributed to a % of the service managers wage, the admins wage, rent and rates on the dealers site,
and another £10/hour for the van, tools, widgets, and a contingency for the non-payers etc.
and of course the owner of the dealership might be expecting £10/hour for return on his investment - my nearest has been bought by a working investor.

Where does the rest of the money go?

I notice a sparky doing some work for me last week carried no fewer expensive widgets, displayed no lesser tech knowledge - s'far as I could see from my caveman standpoint- but charges less than half what the JD dealer charges...and gets results...which isn't always the case elsewhere in my life.

I've said more than once, to our brilliant local 'man/van/box of spanners (who charges rather less than the dealer, and is run ragged with work) that he should charge more, and do less. This would encourage more to venture into the trade.

To pay for the cock-ups!

 

[Mc115reed]

I really don’t understand the mindset behind the people saying too still expect too pay some of the bill or even all of the bill???? The price dealers charge some in excess of £100 a hour you expect a suitably trained and qualified mechanic too come out... if he’s just learning then it should be half price and you made aware of this before they send him.... they didn’t even fix the problem never mind how long it took them !!
Would you go into Greggs and buy a steak bake and then say sorry we’ve not got one that’ll be £1.50 please and expect payment ?

 

[Surgery]

I would go a little careful , for a start those farmers in your area know who you are and who the dealer is more than likely and Chinese whispers might start up.

Probably been said but why don’t you put on your invoice time taken to find fault and repair and time taken to put right dealers mess , it’s then up to said farmer if he wants to show the main dealer and sort that part out.

 

[Drillman]

2 points I would make.

1- the JD6820 tractor isn’t exactly a fresh out of the box range. It will be around 15 years old. Therefore you would expect the main dealer to have seen it all before with them and have a fair idea what the issue was and how to sort it having had many 20 series tractors in bits over the years.

2- electrical stuff needs a methodical and logical approach. You can’t rush in. I’ve seen some very good very experienced mechanics struggle with electrical faults basically stabbing in the dark as it’s not an area there comfortable with.

as others have said the farmer needs to go see the dealership service manager and have a polite reasonable conversation with them.

 

[Lofty1984]

I really don’t understand the mindset behind the people saying too still expect too pay some of the bill or even all of the bill???? The price dealers charge some in excess of £100 a hour you expect a suitably trained and qualified mechanic too come out... if he’s just learning then it should be half price and you made aware of this before they send him.... they didn’t even fix the problem never mind how long it took them !!

Because in the height of summer when he breaks down with something simple and @Phil P isn’t around and needs to get going fast he can still ring the dealer and they will send someone out ASAP who “hopefully “ can get him going rather than they say f**k him he’s that barsteward that wouldn’t pay A penny

 

[Northdowns Martin]

A lot of mechanics now expect to plug in a lap top a be told where and what the fault is. Unfortunately for them that doesn’t always happen. Had a fault with auto steering. Workshop manager said 99% it will be wheel angle sensor, if not wiring loom. Fitter arrives puts angle sensor on after starring at lap top buffering for ages and no joy, so said wiring at fault. Ok I said let’s put new sensor back in box and refit old, he looks at me as though I’m joking. He will have to return as not got loom in van so another 2hours travelling and that’s how the meter clocks up the labour charge. Turned out to be nothing wrong with wiring or any other electrical components but a hydraulic valve box that was diagnosed by a dealership outside area when we gave them the fault code??‍

 

[Happy]

as others have said the farmer needs to go see the dealership service manager and have a polite reasonable conversation with them.

Agree.
Reckon service manager has to be the toughest gig in Ag machinery dealership.

Farmer needs to go and speak to him. Would be surprised if dealership is not reasonable about things.

 

[Johnnyboxer]

A lot of mechanics now expect to plug in a lap top a be told where and what the fault is. Unfortunately for them that doesn’t always happen. Had a fault with auto steering. Workshop manager said 99% it will be wheel angle sensor, if not wiring loom. Fitter arrives puts angle sensor on after starring at lap top buffering for ages and no joy, so said wiring at fault. Ok I said let’s put new sensor back in box and refit old, he looks at me as though I’m joking. He will have to return as not got loom in van so another 2hours travelling and that’s how the meter clocks up the labour charge. Turned out to be nothing wrong with wiring or any other electrical components but a hydraulic valve box that was diagnosed by a dealership outside area when we gave them the fault code[emoji2359]

Did you pay dealer 1 for the incorrect diagnosis of the wheel angle sensor and loom/travelling ??

 

[quattro]

I personally think the op should go to to service manage explain everything that’s happened in a polite manner
and then ask service manager what he thinks should happen regarding charging and then decide what if anything he’s going to pay

 

[Ormond]

We had a dealer out to the Fendt, would run for 10 seconds then stop, just wanted to start banging new bits on here and there , "we've got to try something" he said....new diesel lift pump, new filters, I had just changed them as thought that was the problem...left and ordered a new filter top....parts were up to maybe £800 by now. I took the filter top off and found a lump of silicone in the non return valve that had come from a repair a few months ago on the diesel tank outlet. Canceled the new filter top and took off the new lift pump and sent it back. Very annoying

 

[7610 super q]

Is it just me that's horrified by the amount of electrics in the OP's first pics.......
Can you strip all that sh!t out and replace with levers ?

 

[Ormond]

That's very poor workmanship spending all that time on it, I certainly wouldn't be paying for all that time spent on it. 16 hours! As previously said, need a chat with the workshop manager... while keeping things right ......don't be burning bridges...

 

[Andrew]

If it was me I’d be questioning the workshop manager as to why the fitters spent so long looking in the wrong place.

I would certainly be asking the dealer not to send me that particular ‘fitter’ again.

 

[Northdowns Martin]

Did you pay dealer 1 for the incorrect diagnosis of the wheel angle sensor and loom/travelling ??

Came to an agreement, especially after return trip bear no fruit and ended up with cab in similar state to Phil’s early picture!