Should the NFU hold a OMOV referendum on Red Tractor?

[Clive]

It's a bit like crying about the colour of the bus when the consequence is having to walk though. We're not going to get away from inspections, that, I think, is unrealistic, and probably detrimental to our market, however unfair it is.
Better to push for proper review, by as many people as possible putting themselves through the ridiculously tedious (by design, to minimise responses, I shouldn't wonder) consultation and affect some realistic, constructive changes.

No we won't get away from inspection, the EA, FSA, HSE etc will all continue to uphold the high standard we are required to work to by law and quite rightly so

we do not ned to pay a quango to do that again and add a load of extra stupid questions NOT required by law or customer when they buy a boat load of the same product from south America etc to mix with ours

The new gold plated standard were decided behind closed doors a long time ago as was the increase in costs, The consultation and NFU will rubber stamp them, this is pretty clear to anyone without a blindfold right now

 

[Spud]

it's 2021 - social media is "proper" correspondence, in fact its one of the world most used forms of communication. It has altered outcomes of referendums and Elections such is its reach, relevance and power

Government will listen VERY carefully to social media and have entire departments doing so to aid the likes of BJ to maintain popularity and do what people want. Guy's relevance is somewhat lesser than Boris I suspect !

I don't disagree that social media is both powerful and prominent.

It is not, however, proper correspondence, not in my view anyway. That is what email is for.

 

[Spud]

No we won't get away from inspection, the EA, FSA, HSE etc will all continue to uphold the high standard we are required to work to by law and quite rightly so

we do not ned to pay a quango to do that again and add a load of extra stupid questions NOT required by law or customer when they buy a boat load of the same product from south America etc to mix with ours

The new gold plated standard were decided behind closed doors a long time ago as was the increase in costs, The consultation and NFU will rubber stamp them, this is pretty clear to anyone without a blindfold right now

If you are suggesting that I am somehow blindfolded in this matter, simply because I happen to have a different opinion to yourself, then this conversation is pointless.

You have effectively taken the same line as your Warrickshire colleague.

Good day to you sir.

 

[homefarm]

You had me with you until your last sentence. Since when was threatening people ever the way forward?
[/QUOTE]
Gentle not threatening you help us we help you
Hi AHDB
Please help with RT ,chat chat thank you thank you, Surprised to see the result of the horticulture vote I am sure you would be certain of the cereal vote if you sorted this. chat chat
Thanks again

 

[Clive]

If you are suggesting that I am somehow blindfolded in this matter, simply because I happen to have a different opinion to yourself, then this conversation is pointless.

You have effectively taken the same line as your Warrickshire colleague.

Good day to you sir.

I answered your question about if I think we would have no inspection at all

I'm expressing that any farmer that can not see where this is going re elms needs to open their eyes.

I'm expressing my opinion that gold plated standards and increased costs and coming

I'm expressing an opinion that the consolation is no more than lip service

I'm expressing an opinion that the NFU are so "in bed" with RT they will support them regardless of what their members want


I am not calling you any names either as you state Lee did Guy to which I responded I do not condone such behaviour but do believe a man in GUYs employed position should not block anyone he represents no matter how much he disagrees with them (myself included) !

Good night to you, I forgot how childish replying to you becomes however, I apologise and will no make that mistake again, it doesn't do debate on issues as important our industry as this any justice

 

[Clive]

I think AHDB is our best option for change given to horticultural poll result. They could secure their future with a basic scheme to rival RT.
Forget trying to change the NFU and RT. Lobby the AHDB in a nice way without name calling and ask them to help, numbers matter e mail anyone and everyone you have ever had contact with and gently hint their job might depend on their response.

You are right I think, I don't get the impression that AHDB have a lot of love for red tractor either


how was the horticulture vote forced ? is there a process to officially petition the AHDB ?

 

[Spud]

I answered your question about if I think we would have no inspection at all

I'm expressing that any farmer that can not see where this is going re elms needs to open their eyes.

I'm expressing my opinion that gold plated standards and increased costs and coming

I'm expressing an opinion that the consolation is no more than lip service

I'm expressing an opinion that the NFU are so "in bed" with RT they will support them regardless of what their members want


I am not calling you any names either as you state Lee did Guy to which I responded I do not condone such behaviour but do believe a man in GUYs employed possession should not block anyone he represents no matter how much he disagrees with them (myself included) !

Good night to you, I forgot how childish replying to you becomes however, I apologise and will no make that mistake again, it doesn't do debate on issues as important our industry as this any justice

Yes Clive, you expressed your opinion - but as ever, cannot seem to deal with anyone having alternative, or even a slight derevative of your opinion. I should of realised that much earlier.

I am not suprised at your anti NFU stance - we have become accustomed to that on this forum

No one has much in the way of detail re ELMS yet, it's all speculation

I agree gold plating is both unnecessary and expensive

By consolation, I assume that you mean consultation - there is one thing for sure, if it can be used as a stick to beat us with (ie very few fill it in) then it will be.

You didn't call me names, you inferred I was blindfolded because you felt I wasn't agreeing with you enough.

Expecting Guy to tolerate what is effectively harrasment on social media (I'd suggest that a considered email would be written in different words with your corporate signature below than it would be on Twitter) isn't healthy, sensible or productive. (By possession, I assume you mean Position?)

To debate is not to be childish, but if you wish to trot off home with your bat and ball, then see ya, tomorrow is another day.

 

[Bury the Trash]

 

[homefarm]

You are right I think, I don't get the impression that AHDB have a lot of love for red tractor either


how was the horticulture vote forced ? is there a process to officially petition the AHDB ?

AHDB are always looking for ways they can help levy payers. Testing or trailing has always been what farmers have asked for.

If enough people ask for a basic assurance scheme I think they have to take notice.
Lets stop bickering with each other about RT and NFU. Stop making personal comments.
ALL ask AHDB for a basic assurance scheme in a polite and proper manner.

 

[Filthyfarmer]

I know that. Carrot, stick, Govt. point of difference. Future, not just today. remove the irrelevent BS, not assurance altogether. Reform and improve, rather than abolish.

I would pay for a reformed RT without all the gold plated BS. I would be quite happy to have a yearly audit to make sure I am compliant with the legal regs at a reasonable cost.

 

[Sid]

I would pay for a reformed RT without all the gold plated BS. I would be quite happy to have a yearly audit to make sure I am compliant with the legal regs at a reasonable cost.

Plenty of business use the services of various bodies to ensure they are compliant.

Difference is they have a choice, where as some ag sectors don't, dairy for example.

 

[Pigless]

Im afraid when its your job to represent you loose that right

Boris Johnson can not ignore any British citizen, Guy should bot ignore any Rt Member

Spot on, Boris can't ignore citizens because they have a vote. When the NFU has one member one vote for the leadership surely they will listen and be more responsive.

 

[SilliamWhale]

Clive, you, I am sure, realise that to please all cereal growers at the same time is an absolute impossibility. Resorting to infantile name calling is neither the expected etiquette of a professional farmer to a fellow professional, or a means by which to either change opinion, garner support, or be taken seriously. In truth, it has the opposite effect.

Yes, Guy should be held to account, but suggesting that he be sacked because a few cereal growers happen to disagree with him isn't a sensible nor proactive way forward.

Personally, RT isn't fundamentally wrong, but it is in serious need of an overhaul - and for that I very much value Guy Smith's input into proceedings - he at least has practical experience of both farming and receiving inspections, and is better placed to bring sense to matters than say, an academic with no practical agricultural experience.

Agree on the insults.

RT is fundamentally wrong though. You may like it for other reasons but at a fundamental level its way way off beam

 

[Clive]

Spot on, Boris can't ignore citizens because they have a vote. When the NFU has one member one vote for the leadership surely they will listen and be more responsive.

NFU will never create a properly democratic system like OMOV as it would mean all current officers would be voted out tomorrow......... turkeys do not vote for Christmas

 

[Clive]

Agree on the insults.

RT is fundamentally wrong though. You may like it for other reasons but at a fundamental level its way way off beam

to be clear the only insult was thrown by @warksfarmer on twitter. Thats up to him, i do not conduce childish name calling BUT I don't believe it is justification for someone in a "paid to represent"position such as Guy to block him (that is equally childish IMO)

 

[Clive]

I would pay for a reformed RT without all the gold plated BS. I would be quite happy to have a yearly audit to make sure I am compliant with the legal regs at a reasonable cost.

trouble is this conversation is not being had, neither NFU are RT are taking or consulting about bringing assurance in line with imports

its all about what EXTRA standards we want and how much MORE we are going to pay

 

[tepapa]

AHDB are always looking for ways they can help levy payers. Testing or trailing has always been what farmers have asked for.

If enough people ask for a basic assurance scheme I think they have to take notice.
Lets stop bickering with each other about RT and NFU. Stop making personal comments.
ALL ask AHDB for a basic assurance scheme in a polite and proper manner.

And they can use the £250k that they currently give to RT to help fund the project.

 

[Spud]

to be clear the only insult was thrown by @warksfarmer on twitter. Thats up to him, i do not conduce childish name calling BUT I don't believe it is justification for someone in a "paid to represent"position such as Guy to block him (that is equally childish IMO)

To be clear then Clive, is there a limit to the abuse that Guy should tolerate before blocking someone, or is there no end to the tirade he should have to endure, 'because he is paid to do the job'?

As I've said before, comments would surely be taken more seriously if they were conveyed via a proper company email than they would via the open opinion forum that is social media.

 

[SilliamWhale]

To be clear then Clive, is there a limit to the abuse that Guy should tolerate before blocking someone, or is there no end to the tirade he should have to endure, 'because he is paid to do the job'?

As I've said before, comments would surely be taken more seriously if they were conveyed via a proper company email than they would via the open opinion forum that is social media.

I dont think any of the serious comments are being taken particularly seriously or havent been in the past.

Email is private. Divide and rule. Witness AIC reply.
Social media is more collaborative.
Both have pros and cons but one isnt better than the other.

 

[Clive]

To be clear then Clive, is there a limit to the abuse that Guy should tolerate before blocking someone, or is there no end to the tirade he should have to endure, 'because he is paid to do the job'?

As I've said before, comments would surely be taken more seriously if they were conveyed via a proper company email than they would via the open opinion forum that is social media.

As I said I do not condone @warksfarmer twitter insult but its is fairly flippant and seems to be made in jest, not racist, sexist etc it breaks no laws etc, People in public positions need thick skins, its foes with the job

and again, there is no more "proper" form of communication that social media, it is the most used form of communication on this planet today, other methods of communication are being used as well. there have been a lot of emails sent, letters written and phone calls had. This is certainly not JUST going on in internet land !