Should we farm without N?

[The Ruminant]

No.

I’d suggest listening to it, Will, in fact I was thinking of you and wondering what you’d make of it when I was listening. It’s fascinating stuff and straight from the researcher’s mouth

 

[puppet]

We have plenty slurry but without some bagged N then grass will not yield much for silage, at least not 2 cuts.

 

[Hilly]

I’d suggest listening to it, Will, in fact I was thinking of you and wondering what you’d make of it when I was listening. It’s fascinating stuff and straight from the researcher’s mouth

I listened but I nodded off, the jist I got was it’s all about the potassium if your potassium is right you don’t need nitrogen , is that right or was I dreaming ?

 

[Hilly]

We have plenty slurry but without some bagged N then grass will not yield much for silage, at least not 2 cuts.

I mixed hen sh!t in my slurry one ton per acre them acres yielded much more silage infact the most silage I have ever had over the fields that got 4 hundred weight 24 5 5 or something similar . Hen sh!t is fantastic

 

[puppet]

It is great but not so good when you lose 160 cows from botulism. And the spores last in the soil for several years

 

[puppet]

Added to say plenty reports of deaths. That one was Devon 2014

 

[Banana Bar]

. Assuming that you want to grow enough food to feed people that is...[/QUOTE]

And there lies a much bigger point. There too many people but I don’t see many putting their hand up to be sacrificed!

 

[ollie989898]

World population will increase to around 10 billion before the Third world is rich enough and their birth rate declines. Nitrate fertilisers will be in sue for a long time yet.

 

[BRB John]

World population will increase to around 10 billion before the Third world is rich enough and their birth rate declines. Nitrate fertilisers will be in sue for a long time yet.

Actually this week in the news they think it will cap at 9 billion by 2100. Most of that will be in Africa (tripling its population by 2100) Europe and North america will see a reduction in numbers...

 

[ollie989898]

Actually this week in the news they think it will cap at 9 billion by 2100. Most of that will be in Africa (tripling its population by 2100) Europe and North america will see a reduction in numbers...

I thought the UN reckoned near 10 billion would be possible by 2050 given current trends.

 

[Hilly]

I thought the UN reckoned near 10 billion would be possible by 2050 given current trends.

Mother Nature is waiting for a clean out tick tock the pandemic was nothjng just a warning shot

 

[Durry cows]

A really interesting podcast here about the use of N and K and how soils and organic matter responds.

Really thought-provoking and confirms a lot of anecdotal things we and other farmers find.

Link not working for me any chance of pointing me to the right page? Tia

 

[M-J-G]

Alt of the N debate is down to circumstances.
If you're on a pittance of a rent or don't have land costs allocated to an enterprise you can give cows 2ac each and farm extensively without much in a way of management.

If you're paying a stiff rent or mortgage and have to stock heavier, you either have to use N or work on alternatives.

We're not totally off N but we are working towards it on grassland.
Cereals are the weak link for us.

 

[The Ruminant]

Link not working for me any chance of pointing me to the right page? Tia

It’s the “Regenerative Agriculture Podcast” with John Kempf.

This episode has the catchy title of “The fallacy of mainstream potassium and nitrogen fertilisation with Richard Mulvaney”

my link was to the podcast on Apple but I’m sure it will be on several other platforms too

 

[The Ruminant]

Alt of the N debate is down to circumstances.
If you're on a pittance of a rent or don't have land costs allocated to an enterprise you can give cows 2ac each and farm extensively without much in a way of management.

If you're paying a stiff rent or mortgage and have to stock heavier, you either have to use N or work on alternatives.

We're not totally off N but we are working towards it on grassland.
Cereals are the weak link for us.

I’d argue that if people want to cut out N they shouldn’t “give cows 2ac each and farm extensively without much in the way of management” but instead should manage the operation twice as hard as they did when they have the crutch of N to support them, and also work hard at educating themselves so that they understand how healthy soils work and can work for them.

Mycorrhizal fungae are the key to everything good. When you understand mycorrhizal fungae, you are starting to understand soil.

You’re doing well to be reducing your N on grassland. As I learn more about the fungae, I understand why, for most, arable will be the weak link. There are ways round it but it takes a lot of left-field thinking..... hardly anyone is prepared to do this.

 

[farmerm]

Good rotation on a mixed farm is best .


and What's the point of producing more cheap food for the masses if all they do is get fatter or throw it in the bins ...

or buy it from somewhere else that can produce even more food even more cheaply

 

[M-J-G]

I’d argue that if people want to cut out N they shouldn’t “give cows 2ac each and farm extensively without much in the way of management” but instead should manage the operation twice as hard as they did when they have the crutch of N to support them, and also work hard at educating themselves so that they understand how healthy soils work and can work for them.

Mycorrhizal fungae are the key to everything good. When you understand mycorrhizal fungae, you are starting to understand soil.

You’re doing well to be reducing your N on grassland. As I learn more about the fungae, I understand why, for most, arable will be the weak link. There are ways round it but it takes a lot of left-field thinking..... hardly anyone is prepared to do this.

That's more or less what I was getting at.
You can use N
You can go extensive
Or you can work on alternatives

 

[Rob Garrett]

I’d argue that if people want to cut out N they shouldn’t “give cows 2ac each and farm extensively without much in the way of management” but instead should manage the operation twice as hard as they did when they have the crutch of N to support them, and also work hard at educating themselves so that they understand how healthy soils work and can work for them.

Mycorrhizal fungae are the key to everything good. When you understand mycorrhizal fungae, you are starting to understand soil.

You’re doing well to be reducing your N on grassland. As I learn more about the fungae, I understand why, for most, arable will be the weak link. There are ways round it but it takes a lot of left-field thinking..... hardly anyone is prepared to do this.

2020 pea/barley mix pic. below. Last year yielded 3t/acre. No bagged N. Spring oats averaging 2.5t/acre, no bagged N. Roughly £30/t gross cost of production, non organic plough based system.

 

[Rob Garrett]

A really interesting podcast here about the use of N and K and how soils and organic matter responds.

Really thought-provoking and confirms a lot of anecdotal things we and other farmers find.

Now that is hellish interesting, top signposting, thank you. I feel a Potassium (Sulphate of Potash not MOP) strip trial is needed in my Red Clover Ley & Pea/Barley mix.

FYM in soil was said to be higher in Amino Sugar N, wonder if compost replaced FYM you would get higher or lower Amino Sugar N?

 

[SilliamWhale]

2020 pea/barley mix pic. below. Last year yielded 3t/acre. No bagged N. Spring oats averaging 2.5t/acre, no bagged N. Roughly £30/t gross cost of production, non organic plough based system.
View attachment 895156View attachment 895157

What was the crop before and what will you do after?