Shovelhands in the workshop, I did it my way........

[Pan mixer]

Only just caught up with this thread, good stuff @Shovelhands .

One minor point that I would bear in mind if I was ever to design a muck spreader;

Presumably you are going for a rear discharge sort like my Ktwo that we were looking at the other week, fine when full or half full but at a third full or less interesting things happen to the balance of the machine with all the poo and the beaters etc at the back.

How is your machine going to cope with that horrid weight transfer on every load? I think that it would be OK but you may need some sort of thing to alter your rear axle suspension as you go - or is all this in the above and my mind got hijacked?

 

[Shovelhands]

Only just caught up with this thread, good stuff @Shovelhands .

One minor point that I would bear in mind if I was ever to design a muck spreader;

Presumably you are going for a rear discharge sort like my Ktwo that we were looking at the other week, fine when full or half full but at a third full or less interesting things happen to the balance of the machine with all the poo and the beaters etc at the back.

How is your machine going to cope with that horrid weight transfer on every load? I think that it would be OK but you may need some sort of thing to alter your rear axle suspension as you go - or is all this in the above and my mind got hijacked?

Thanks @Pan mixer

It's a good, and valid point, and one I have thought about.
It's one of the reasons for adding the axle, and not just sticking a big body on a standard chassis and taking a bit of a liberty with the length, and ending up with too much weight rearward of the axle!
I plan, to have the spinner deck, as tight to the back wheels as possible, there should still be a fair length of chassis for the body, and keep the weight as far forward as possible. Limiting the rear overhang past the axle as much as is practical.
I realise, weight transfer, is a big factor with a muck spreader, moving the load to the rear constantly. But it is a diminishing load, but of course, there will be a moment when half the load, and therefore half the weight, is in the back of the body, but I'm hoping this will still be over the top of the axles and not behind!
I also plan to have an adjustable, maybe manually adjustable, air pressure settings for the suspension, depending on the load, as I cannot use a conventional levelling valve. But this is still a work in progress, well it's not even that yet, just ideas bumbling around in my head

But it's a good point you raise

I'm not trying to make the biggest machine going, or carry the most material, a modest load, with the lightest footprint I can will do me
Some of these big muck spreaders, doing the sewage sludge and the like, are running at some serious weight, that Holmar thing running about is pushing 50t fully freighted , so I've been told, crazy weights on four wheels.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

Thanks @Pan mixer

It's a good, and valid point, and one I have thought about.
It's one of the reasons for adding the axle, and not just sticking a big body on a standard chassis and taking a bit of a liberty with the length, and ending up with too much weight rearward of the axle!
I plan, to have the spinner deck, as tight to the back wheels as possible, there should still be a fair length of chassis for the body, and keep the weight as far forward as possible. Limiting the rear overhang past the axle as much as is practical.
I realise, weight transfer, is a big factor with a muck spreader, moving the load to the rear constantly. But it is a diminishing load, but of course, there will be a moment when half the load, and therefore half the weight, is in the back of the body, but I'm hoping this will still be over the top of the axles and not behind!
I also plan to have an adjustable, maybe manually adjustable, air pressure settings for the suspension, depending on the load, as I cannot use a conventional levelling valve. But this is still a work in progress, well it's not even that yet, just ideas bumbling around in my head

But it's a good point you raise

I'm not trying to make the biggest machine going, or carry the most material, a modest load, with the lightest footprint I can will do me
Some of these big muck spreaders, doing the sewage sludge and the like, are running at some serious weight, that Holmar thing running about is pushing 50t fully freighted , so I've been told, crazy weights on four wheels.

And then they have to keep breaking the compaction or going to controlled traffic to cope!

 

[7485]

It looks very good, I don't see why you can not use a load sensing valve on the back axle, it could still dump the air when needed.
The only other way around the load transfer issue would have been to put the drive axle at the back and to have the tag axle in front. But that would have given you a very big turning circle.
Very interested in your project, 8t looks good.

 

[Shovelhands]

It looks very good, I don't see why you can not use a load sensing valve on the back axle, it could still dump the air when needed.
The only other way around the load transfer issue would have been to put the drive axle at the back and to have the tag axle in front. But that would have given you a very big turning circle.
Very interested in your project, 8t looks good.

In my view, I cannot use a levelling valve, as found on commercial trailers etc, as there job is to increase air pressure in the air bags, and to maintain a set distance between the chassis and axle. While the increased air pressure is desired, the chassis gap unfortunately is not. As the axle in front is fixed, the tyres will compress once loaded, and the chassis will lower, in this instance, the levelling valve will seek to maintain the chassis gap that it is set up to achieve. This will result in far to much weight being transferred to the rear axle.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Also, as I want the rear axle to articulate, and account for the contours in terrain, without compromising grip and ground contact on the middle axle, I feel a levelling valve would never be happy, it would be constantly adjusting up or down,let's remember these things are designed for road use, where once a height is set, it will hardly need adjustment once on the road.
I think, a selection of preset pressure in the air bags is the way to go initially. With a view to the rear axles sharing the weight in a 60/40 split, so that there is always slightly more weight on the drive axle.
But things may change......

 

[7485]

In my view, I cannot use a levelling valve, as found on commercial trailers etc, as there job is to increase air pressure in the air bags, and to maintain a set distance between the chassis and axle. While the increased air pressure is desired, the chassis gap unfortunately is not. As the axle in front is fixed, the tyres will compress once loaded, and the chassis will lower, in this instance, the levelling valve will seek to maintain the chassis gap that it is set up to achieve. This will result in far to much weight being transferred to the rear axle.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Also, as I want the rear axle to articulate, and account for the contours in terrain, without compromising grip and ground contact on the middle axle, I feel a levelling valve would never be happy, it would be constantly adjusting up or down,let's remember these things are designed for road use, where once a height is set, it will hardly need adjustment once on the road.
I think, a selection of preset pressure in the air bags is the way to go initially. With a view to the rear axles sharing the weight in a 60/40 split, so that there is always slightly more weight on the drive axle.
But things may change......

Yes you are right, I was forgetting that you had a fixed axle.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

In my view, I cannot use a levelling valve, as found on commercial trailers etc, as there job is to increase air pressure in the air bags, and to maintain a set distance between the chassis and axle. While the increased air pressure is desired, the chassis gap unfortunately is not. As the axle in front is fixed, the tyres will compress once loaded, and the chassis will lower, in this instance, the levelling valve will seek to maintain the chassis gap that it is set up to achieve. This will result in far to much weight being transferred to the rear axle.
That's the way I see it anyway.
Also, as I want the rear axle to articulate, and account for the contours in terrain, without compromising grip and ground contact on the middle axle, I feel a levelling valve would never be happy, it would be constantly adjusting up or down,let's remember these things are designed for road use, where once a height is set, it will hardly need adjustment once on the road.
I think, a selection of preset pressure in the air bags is the way to go initially. With a view to the rear axles sharing the weight in a 60/40 split, so that there is always slightly more weight on the drive axle.
But things may change......

Just a thought.......

IF you could find the right electronics degree student then it wouldn't be hard for them to create a bespoke controller for you that used strain gauges in the drive axle mountings to control the air pressure in the rear axle airbags.

I was looking into building an electronic front linkage controller for the JD to provide a position control facility via a solenoid valve and emailed a couple of university lecturers for advice. They were quite interested but didn't have time spare. A project like that for you could help a student as a degree project.

Just a thought.

 

[Shovelhands]

Just a thought.......

IF you could find the right electronics degree student then it wouldn't be hard for them to create a bespoke controller for you that used strain gauges in the drive axle mountings to control the air pressure in the rear axle airbags.

I was looking into building an electronic front linkage controller for the JD to provide a position control facility via a solenoid valve and emailed a couple of university lecturers for advice. They were quite interested but didn't have time spare. A project like that for you could help a student add a degree project.

Just a thought.

I intend to have the body mounted on weigh cells, there's a possibility that these could also be used for this purpose, but I've not looked into it yet.
Good idea about using a student, could be interesting for someone?

 

[TheTallGuy]

This is the sort of thing I used to do when I worked in electronic engineering. I still dabble - my current project is an electronic speed governor for the Super Major engine on my generator as it runs fast on warm days and slow on cold ones. I'd consider helping out when you get that far.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I intend to have the body mounted on weigh cells, there's a possibility that these could also be used for this purpose, but I've not looked into it yet.
Good idea about using a student, could be interesting for someone?

This is the sort of thing I used to do when I worked in electronic engineering. I still dabble - my current project is an electronic speed governor for the Super Major engine on my generator as it runs fast on warm days and slow on cold ones. I'd consider helping out when you get that far.

Not my field really other than a passing interest but it shouldn't be too hard to design and build a control system to sense the strain under each axle and vary the airbag pressure to keep a set weight distribution on the axles. At least you'd not have to keep adjusting it manually. You could, of course, have a manual override.

It'd be a pretty cool setup then!

 

[Shovelhands]

This is the sort of thing I used to do when I worked in electronic engineering. I still dabble - my current project is an electronic speed governor for the Super Major engine on my generator as it runs fast on warm days and slow on cold ones. I'd consider helping out when you get that far.

Thanks @TheTallGuy , I may well give you a shout when the time comes

 

[Shovelhands]

 

[phillipe]

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great work ,but you couldnt build anything thing bigger ,you need a bigger shed

 

[Shovelhands]

great work ,but you couldnt build anything thing bigger ,you need a bigger shed

I could gain a meter or so if I shifted the lathe, thats in front of it, but then I'd need a shed for the lathe

A shed for projects, without so much other stuff in it, is a also a work in progress! But it won't be finished any time soon.....bit like this machine

 

[phillipe]

I could gain a meter or so if I shifted the lathe, thats in front of it, but then I'd need a shed for the lathe

A shed for projects, without so much other stuff in it, is a also a work in progress! But it won't be finished any time soon.....bit like this machine

still proper good stuff,probaly with all the crap in this world,(bombing,elections) the best thread on here

 

[RushesToo]

I intend to have the body mounted on weigh cells, there's a possibility that these could also be used for this purpose, but I've not looked into it yet.
Good idea about using a student, could be interesting for someone?

@Shovelhands Try University of Essex - they have a computer science and electronic engineering department. Students have to do projects and an electronics engineer may be useful as you can do the engineering.

 

[Shovelhands]

@Shovelhands Try University of Essex - they have a computer science and electronic engineering department. Students have to do projects and an electronics engineer may be useful as you can do the engineering.

Another good option
Local and definitely worth a call if I need to sort something.

I really am quite a long way off from doing anything like that though, it's going to be one of the 'modifications later', rather than a build it as we go type addition. I think there simply too many unknowns at this stage of the build. The simple system I have in my head, will get me up and running, and be enough to see how it all performs.

All good thinking material though

 

[Pan mixer]

Have you had a sudden shower down at your yard today then? Looked jolly fine even a tad hot from here.

 

[Shovelhands]

Have you had a sudden shower down at your yard today then? Looked jolly fine even a tad hot from here.

Archive pics

I'm a little further ahead than the pictures, not much, times been a bit thin on the ground this week. Those pics were last week in the monsoon!
I was outside painting these this afternoon, and it was too chuffing hot!

 

[Dave W]

It was too chuffin hot for anything today. And no I won't be moaning when it's cold.

Those rear wheels look a fair distance apart. Probably not as much in reality I guess