Silvopasture

[Kiwi Pete]

A friend of mine has about 1500 acres in cells, @martian, the 7000 paddock place off the other thread?
What he's done (all cattle) is plant in the corner of the cells and just tied a short piece of poly across so the cattle don't get to the tree, each one has a tiny triangle of waist-deep grass around it.

We'll copy this, IMO a few hundred trees on 100ac is plenty to boost the cycling without creating "camps" and the existing row trees can disappear - ugly and counterproductive

If you always put the fence in the same place, I'd just do it that way, maybe even knock in a couple of stakes with insulators attached and use that as your corner.

Pros: very cheap and fast
devalues the property for future soil rapists (and sheep)

Cons: you can't keep any sheep/goats to eat what the cattle don't
wildlife can still ringbark the trees

Where I'm going to plant poplar, we're just going to use punched draincoil split with a hot knife, but the tagasaste kakabeak kowhai etc will get a lap of sheep-netting around them while they grow up, and we'll probably simply drop sheep off the stocking plan for a few years.

 

[martian]

No experience but how expensive are they John? Wanting to put more trees in here but dont like the idea of building great wooden protective structures around them.

I think they come out at about £13 a sheet, which you roll into a tube, then you need two or three rebars to anchor it. Say £15/tree. Not really sure as we were given the materials to try out. There's probably a grant, or Srewardship option which would cover it, if you can face the paperwork

 

[SilliamWhale]

Beautiful great oak in a field is a sight to behold imo

Visually yes. Ecologically I'm not sure if its as good as surrounded by its friends

 

[SilliamWhale]

Do hedge species naturally exists in rows?

No but they naturally exist in co-habitation with each other

 

[Poorbuthappy]

I think they come out at about £13 a sheet, which you roll into a tube, then you need two or three rebars to anchor it. Say £15/tree. Not really sure as we were given the materials to try out. There's probably a grant, or Srewardship option which would cover it, if you can face the paperwork

Certainly sounds worth a try on small scale ?

 

[Henarar]

Visually yes. Ecologically I'm not sure if its as good as surrounded by its friends

nobody to talk to

 

[Henarar]

With an energiser for every tree? Or how are you going to link trees dotted around fields?

overhead wire from tree to tree

 

[Samcowman]

A friend of mine has about 1500 acres in cells, @martian, the 7000 paddock place off the other thread?
What he's done (all cattle) is plant in the corner of the cells and just tied a short piece of poly across so the cattle don't get to the tree, each one has a tiny triangle of waist-deep grass around it.

We'll copy this, IMO a few hundred trees on 100ac is plenty to boost the cycling without creating "camps" and the existing row trees can disappear - ugly and counterproductive

If you always put the fence in the same place, I'd just do it that way, maybe even knock in a couple of stakes with insulators attached and use that as your corner.

Pros: very cheap and fast
devalues the property for future soil rapists (and sheep)

Cons: you can't keep any sheep/goats to eat what the cattle don't
wildlife can still ringbark the trees

Where I'm going to plant poplar, we're just going to use punched draincoil split with a hot knife, but the tagasaste kakabeak kowhai etc will get a lap of sheep-netting around them while they grow up, and we'll probably simply drop sheep off the stocking plan for a few years.

Is that a tree in the corner of each of the 7000 cells? What mixture of trees did he use?

 

[Poorbuthappy]

Visually yes. Ecologically I'm not sure if its as good as surrounded by its friends

Not disagreeing but we're not talking a tree in a 50 acre field here. Our nicest large oak is within 50 yards of other trees. Our biggest field is 20 acres and I want to plant a hedge to divide that up, then some trees dotted around as well.

 

[Bury the Trash]

wow, we only farm 1 20 acre field he makes a refreshing change from the other smaller ones .

hes still got 5 big oak and chestnut dotted around though a right pita,

i would far sooner fence off field corner with them all in .and let wild flowers grow under them.

 

[Poorbuthappy]

wow, we only farm 1 20 acre field he makes a refreshing change from the other smaller ones .

hes still got 5 big oak and chestnut dotted around though a right pita,

i would far sooner fence off field corner with them all in .and let wild flowers grow under them.

But if you divide up the field into paddocks with electric fence, the stock are left with no shelter in many of the paddocks.

 

[Bury the Trash]

But if you divide up the field into paddocks, the stock are left with no shelter in many of the paddocks.

they dont go to the trees (mature / big canopy and evenly spread around it) to shelter from wind sleet etc, but they do get out of the sun there its true.

when its wet i must admit i like themto naturally be able to go up to the driest part at tyhe top. no trees upthere but thats where they end up.


dont see thta its(fencing them )mimicking natural behavour, rather impacting it ...

i guess ive strayed into the wrong thread again...

 

[ShooTa]

i graze through parkland - so ill change my paddock sizes to include/avoid trees or in some cases have some simple un electrified polywire around the tree - remember its the psycological defence. havnt put in new ones but have spotted alot of oak saplings sprouting now along with a few young ones elsewhere which im going to rehome to the parkland - those ill mark with a post and then have a mobile/semipermanant guard which i can throw up for that grazing event. If their not hungry then the treell be fine./

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Is that a tree in the corner of each of the 7000 cells? What mixture of trees did he use?

Some of them, it is a work in progress.
All types of trees - natives, nut trees, fodder trees, soft fruit trees, legumes... maybe a couple of hundred types.

It is mainly on a plain (the rain in Spain ) so a lot of the benefit will simply be in reducing air velocity at grass level without creating much turbulence.

"Straight rows are only for people", care has been taken to mix things up in this respect; it's just another way to get a couple of hundred more species into an already diverse environment, for Andrew.

 

[Bury the Trash]

i graze through parkland - so ill change my paddock sizes to include/avoid trees or in some cases have some simple un electrified polywire around the tree - remember its the psycological defence. havnt put in new ones but have spotted alot of oak saplings sprouting now along with a few young ones elsewhere which im going to rehome to the parkland - those ill mark with a post and then have a mobile/semipermanant guard which i can throw up for that grazing event. If their not hungry then the treell be fine./

trouble is they will press against those temporary fences by those trees in the hot sun of the summer as they do..
going to have to permanently fence ours i think , as after not being too bothered for about 60 years, the now agent for the Landlord seems to be keen on their protection, as we are of course as well, cough. cough....

 

[martian]

Why not just build more hedges? Trees dont really exist in singles do they

I've been mulling over this, whilst looking at some lovely mature single oaks dotted about our pastures. I've just reread a couple of chapters of Isabella Tree's Wilding (which I thoroughly recommend to anyone who hasn't read it yet) and she trashes the conventional wisdom that closed canopy forest is the natural state of the UK, or indeed most of Northern Europe. There were herds of wandering herbivores which restricted tree cover and led to a wood pasture landscape, which is much more biodiverse and 'productive' than pure woodland...which is where the silvo-pasture idea comes back in. She also points out that oaks won't naturally regrow in a closed woodland, they need the space and light to thrive, which is why they've teamed up with jays, who drop their acorns about all over the countryside. We've got little oaks popping up all over the place, so I'll be guarding some of these to keep the cattle off, in about three hundred years time there should be some lovely spreading oaks about the place. Can't wait...

 

[Beekissed]

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to developing silvopasture. We had too many trees....most of the property was covered in thick forest, pine and hardwood alike. We had it selectively timbered in early spring and now need to clean up the logging mess, roll out hay on all the bare areas left by the logging equipment and then spend the next few years thinning out some areas even more.

Just using hair sheep here and am amazed at how quickly the browse sprung up in the openings left by the logging and how much the sheep are loving it all. In the future we are going to try to include these browse areas in each grazing area so they have a goodly mix of both in their diet with each paddock move.

I'm glad our only problem is thinning out trees rather than having to plant them and protect them....a much harder prospect and I feel for you folks on that. Wish I could send you all the many tree sprouts of various kinds springing up on the land right now.

Will be following this thread with great interest and love seeing pics of your land and efforts.

 

[holwellcourtfarm]

I'm on the opposite end of the spectrum when it comes to developing silvopasture. We had too many trees....most of the property was covered in thick forest, pine and hardwood alike. We had it selectively timbered in early spring and now need to clean up the logging mess, roll out hay on all the bare areas left by the logging equipment and then spend the next few years thinning out some areas even more.

Just using hair sheep here and am amazed at how quickly the browse sprung up in the openings left by the logging and how much the sheep are loving it all. In the future we are going to try to include these browse areas in each grazing area so they have a goodly mix of both in their diet with each paddock move.

I'm glad our only problem is thinning out trees rather than having to plant them and protect them....a much harder prospect and I feel for you folks on that. Wish I could send you all the many tree sprouts of various kinds springing up on the land right now.

Will be following this thread with great interest and love seeing pics of your land and efforts.

Browsing shrubs is so undervalued/underappreciated by many UK livestock producers. The stock love it and it has huge nutritional benefits.

 

[Kiwi Pete]

Ancient Tree Forum

Help us to protect ancient and veteran trees Ancient and other veteran trees are a vital and treasured part of our history, and our natural and cultural landscape, and Britain is thought to have the greatest number of ancient trees in northern Europe. The Ancient Tree Forum seeks to secure the...

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Heaps of interesting info on here

 

[Jaffa Cakes]

Maybe not silvopasture as such but I have a neighbour with a small broad leaf tree plantation and he gets someone in each year for about a week to cut all the grass back. Could it be done with Shropshire sheep or do they only work with coniferous trees? Anybody and experience if this type of thing? Thinking I could charge a small fee for grazing or even just get it for free . . .