Simple easement question

[Kingofgrass]

I’ll make this as short as possible.... we brought a another farm 6years ago,we own a field that surrounds someone’s property,said people in this house are right w**kers,anti farming,ring the police if I’m spreading muck on that field etc etc even had a harassment warning for tanking muck on there off the police..anyway they’ve had problems with there septic tank for the last three years,they’ve got the insurance claim up to 70+k now they’ve had a treatment plant put in etc etc..there soak away is not working and it’s in our field.
I know roughly where it is,they haven’t got a clue where it is.at the moment they’ve moled under the road and dumping the water in the ditch (which I know is illegal) but the building regs bloke won’t sign it off.so they’ve sent me the original document they had with the previous owner of the farm and it was on there deeds, but it’s not on our deeds.i have ask the solicitor to prove to me where it is,and she can’t.so what’s score? Do I have to let them on or not? Council are refusing to let them discharge into the ditch opposite the property(as they say not enough water flowing for the dilution) I’ve met with the engineer from the insurance firm he wants to put in a 50mm alkathene across our field to a dry pond(always dry) which then taps into our drains. I think their trying their luck as three years ago they asked to put a new soakaway in,we said 10k and they can!never heard anything else since and they’ve tried everything else even putting a soakaway in their garden.which didn’t work as it solid clay all up there.we get on with all our neighbours at all our farms except them,if it was anyone else we help them and not charge them.but these pair can swivel...so what do you reckon? Do I have to let them or not ? Thanks in advance

 

[teslacoils]

Tbh they probably have an existing right as per their deeds. I'd probably give my solicitor a list of their cuntery, and advise them that you will let them stick to their easement and absolutely nothing more without pound notes and paperwork promising not to be such pansies again in the future. Otherwise let them stew in their own filth.

 

[br jones]

If you can ,tell them to go swivel.

 

[Agri Spec Solicitor]

There is no such thing as a simple easement !
We have a few cases on caused by the recent ish rule changes on STP. These are fact specific so as stated you do need to see a solicitor before you do anything to make the situation worse.

 

[Pennine Ploughing]

Tell them to do what they usually do to call the police when they have a problem,
And say, if they cannot sort it out, then nothing can be done, as you have burnt your bridges with me


Police won't want to know as it's a civil dispute, and police may get the feeling they are just trouble makers

 

[Still Farming]

New regs coming in ,in the new year so looks like their trying to push through fast?
Drag your feet as their nice neighbours.
Soakaway, discharge, stp, cesspits ,all different and methods so what they had maybe different to proposed thus paperwork inaccurate or null and void?
Are you in The CLA, NFU etc as possibly helpful ,and your land agent, solicitor in property laws.
If they can't get their system to work correctly then they will have to put a sealed cesspit in and that will cost as to regular emptying etc. Unless mains connection in area??
Drag it out-sod them?

 

[Kingofgrass]

There’s six other houses up there by them on the mains, all of which they’ve pee'd them off too from robbing someone’s cat....and kicking all silt/leaves back in the ditch after someone had cleaned it out.they’ve tried to get on the mains but it means going through a neighbours garden and he’s told them to swivel. These people really think there it and know ones got anytime for them! Since I met with the engineer etc and he told me that them pumping into the ditch is illegal, I let on to the neighbours that it was illegal they’ve all reported him now they deserve it lol.just waiting for the solicitor to come back to me,but she has changed her tune now after the first letter stating that in 14days their going on the field and doing what the hell they want to do.told her to come up with a £????? Figure and I’ll think about it....I’ll teach said couple a lesson thinking it’s ok to film me every time I’m in the field,police,council,putting bins out in the gateway the list is endless.thanks for the replies

 

[Still Farming]

There’s six other houses up there by them on the mains, all of which they’ve pee'd them off too from robbing someone’s cat....and kicking all silt/leaves back in the ditch after someone had cleaned it out.they’ve tried to get on the mains but it means going through a neighbours garden and he’s told them to swivel. These people really think there it and know ones got anytime for them! Since I met with the engineer etc and he told me that them pumping into the ditch is illegal, I let on to the neighbours that it was illegal they’ve all reported him now they deserve it lol.just waiting for the solicitor to come back to me,but she has changed her tune now after the first letter stating that in 14days their going on the field and doing what the hell they want to do.told her to come up with a £????? Figure and I’ll think about it....I’ll teach said couple a lesson thinking it’s ok to film me every time I’m in the field,police,council,putting bins out in the gateway the list is endless.thanks for the replies

If they not served notice on you then not legal entry plus you can refuse and they got to get court order but only if renew as per existing legal covenants if they are correct in first place possibly?
New sewerage treatment plant and discharge herringbone drainage system different for a start???

 

[Kidds]

From what little I know, the original “deeds” that allow the soak away on your land still allow it even though not in your “deeds”. That right does not go away unless it specifically says so on documents subsequent to the one that allowed it.
It is up to their solicitor to find this easement and to act upon it. As is often the case this doesn’t actually happen as in general solicitors don’t do a right lot, they just charge you a lot of money to regurgitate information that you supply to them in the first place.
I’d just keep quiet about that original easement if I were you and be as awkward as you like in the meantime. It sounds like they’ve earned it.

 

[Dry Rot]

From what little I know, the original “deeds” that allow the soak away on your land still allow it even though not in your “deeds”. That right does not go away unless it specifically says so on documents subsequent to the one that allowed it.
It is up to their solicitor to find this easement and to act upon it. As is often the case this doesn’t actually happen as in general solicitors don’t do a right lot, they just charge you a lot of money to regurgitate information that you supply to them in the first place.
I’d just keep quiet about that original easement if I were you and be as awkward as you like in the meantime. It sounds like they’ve earned it.

....meantime, take photos and video of the field where they want to put the soakaway. You'll need before and after evidence to recover compensation.

If, in a weak moment, you allow them access, make sure they are responsible for putting everything back the way it was. That includes not only putting right the physical damage (crop damage, loss of use of the field, damage to drains, reseeding. establishment, disruption to rotation, etc., etc) but also your time dealing with the problem (telephone, professional fees, subsistence, mileage, and anything else you can think of!).

I suspect they will be related to my neighbours, there's a familiar ring to the story!

 

[Kingofgrass]

Their original soakaway is 40ft long open ended into a hollow in the field that drains into the ditch (10ft from ditch) most of the soakaway pipes are like that round here(straight into a ditch).had that field drained three years ago every 12m cost 29k (15acre field) was a massive job and some drains are 6m deep! Laughed at the engineer when he said he would go under the drains. Anyway the neighbours up there are mint they ring or txt me if them plonkers are in the field or up to no good

 

[Still Farming]

Midnight dig maybe???

 

[Kingofgrass]

Said couple think there that clever bragging to someone “they can’t believe the insurance is covering it” think a few people have tried to have for insurance fraud lol

 

[Walton2]

Similar case here...4 new properties going 500m down a bridle way to get to mains....managed to get that closed in 7 days, then put pipes within 4 m of 200 year old Turkish Oak, that had a TPO! Spoil tipped on ridge and furrow grassland ,levelled out,its still there, and also some tipped into a pond for a Grade 2 listed IceHouse....not one of our ‘Agencies’ were remotely concerned! Suspect developer has friends in high places , but can’t prove it of course.
!

 

[Ffermer Bach]

I remember talking years ago, to a very intelligent machine owner/driver, he said he used to bulldoze lots of trees (starting on a Friday evening, finishing Sunday evening) all covered with soil by the end of the weekend and if any one came and complained or tried to stop him, he spoke to them with his mouth open when listening. They eventually concluded he was slightly feeble minded and left him to get on with it. Any way, thinking of this, could you not talk to them in that manner and say, ah better leave all that stuff to my solicitor, I don't understand it all.

 

[Goweresque]

I thought that the new treatment plants were legal to discharge to watercourses? Isn't that the entire point of them, you don't need a soakaway, you can just stick it in the nearest ditch, because the outflow is 'supposed' to be treated enough to go in with any other storm water? I know of treatment plants that discharge straight into rivers.

With regard to the easement, presumably whatever rights they may have to have a soakaway on your land, they only relate to whatever was installed in your field in the first place. That is to say they'd have a right to enter to maintain or replace the existing system, but not install anything bigger or more fancy than what was originally installed, which is unlikely to meet current building regs. So presumably any new soakaway that needed more length/depth/area etc in order to comply with current building regs would need a new easement, as the old one wouldn't cover that.

I would be tempted to play along, get them to put in writing exactly what they want, including drawings etc, and then if its anything other than what exists in the ground today inform them that its not covered by the old easement so a new one would be needed and the price is £££.

 

[Kingofgrass]

I thought that the new treatment plants were legal to discharge to watercourses? Isn't that the entire point of them, you don't need a soakaway, you can just stick it in the nearest ditch, because the outflow is 'supposed' to be treated enough to go in with any other storm water? I know of treatment plants that discharge straight into rivers.

With regard to the easement, presumably whatever rights they may have to have a soakaway on your land, they only relate to whatever was installed in your field in the first place. That is to say they'd have a right to enter to maintain or replace the existing system, but not install anything bigger or more fancy than what was originally installed, which is unlikely to meet current building regs. So presumably any new soakaway that needed more length/depth/area etc in order to comply with current building regs would need a new easement, as the old one wouldn't cover that.

I would be tempted to play along, get them to put in writing exactly what they want, including drawings etc, and then if its anything other than what exists in the ground today inform them that its not covered by the old easement so a new one would be needed and the price is £££.

Good reply thanks,yes you can put into a ditch but it has to have a certain amount of water for the dilution.this ditch hasn’t so that’s why the council won’t let them

 

[Still Farming]

Good reply thanks,yes you can put into a ditch but it has to have a certain amount of water for the dilution.this ditch hasn’t so that’s why the council won’t let them

Also as per envoirnmental agency licence to discharge, Hydro geologist and any aquifer or catchment area plans or maps of the area.
Water utilities and Envoirnmental Health Council consents also.
If ditches, stream,rivers ,about then you need above also.
Plenty of ammo 4u .
Drag it out asap.

 

[stroller]

Check the regulations but I seem to remember that a soak away cannot be on land that is travelled over by machinery.

 

[Still Farming]

Check the regulations but I seem to remember that a soak away cannot be on land that is travelled over by machinery.

Also satisfactory porosity tests done and achieved.